Path: ...!local-3.nntp.ord.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-1.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 20:33:46 +0000 Subject: Re: No true relativist! Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity References: <89ea9e0a4ddc271a7bc16200c6a5dbb4@www.novabbs.com> <3c273ef12b9952ba62097af7c82733a1@www.novabbs.com> <89a6d08110a99bf650447fa73d9bd658@www.novabbs.com> <1f6a60640e4f17fec750e15c9e17a1a0@www.novabbs.com> From: Ross Finlayson Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2024 12:33:20 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Lines: 180 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com X-Trace: sv3-tMAxNYhiYw15AT1itoVoN/Th0ynb1sraqxJzp0noOr8my0mf2r8gwZOcLwx/AcrRmPIh7g0WfEmuZXC!aXYKwcgVNYb43/wBdXfrRVzlf1Xicw7iTUBUDxx8TnnOeGFT1udLdyNIbIqgpLlZ1t/rTaAzdSVo X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.40 Bytes: 8684 On 11/14/2024 11:43 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: > On 11/13/2024 10:58 PM, Thomas Heger wrote: >> Am Dienstag000012, 12.11.2024 um 18:33 schrieb Ross Finlayson: >>> On 11/12/2024 12:05 AM, Thomas Heger wrote: >>>> Am Dienstag000012, 12.11.2024 um 06:06 schrieb LaurenceClarkCrossen: >>>>> Mr. Hertz: The article, "Poincaré and Cosmic Space: Curved or not?" by >>>>> Helge Kragh gives the history of how the elementary error of reifying >>>>> space became respected and prestigious thanks to Schwarzschild and >>>>> Einstein carrying it over the finish line. Most scientists knew it was >>>>> fallacious and it only gained acceptance slowly. From the article it >>>>> appears that the key is the idea that non-Euclidean geometry is more >>>>> empirical than Euclidean. After all, no one has been able to prove the >>>>> fifth postulate that parallel lines never meet. However, no one has >>>>> ever >>>>> proven that they do. The idea that the universe is spherical given the >>>>> vast extent of it now known would make the curvature infinitesimal >>>>> so it >>>>> is non-falsifiable. This shows that non-Euclidean geometry is not more >>>>> empirical. >>>>> >>>>> Elementary logical analysis remains sufficient to disprove >>>>> non-Euclidean >>>>> geometry. Obviously spherical geometry and geometry describing other >>>>> shapes is valid. It is only the reifying space that is absurd. >>>>> >>>>> Poincare correctly understood that geometry cannot be reified (in >>>>> Einstein's words, "'geometry alone contains no statements about >>>>> objects >>>>> of reality, but only geometry together with physics.'"["Poincaré and >>>>> Cosmic Space: Curved or not?" Helge Kragh] >>>> >>>> >>>> You understand 'geometry' as 'relations in euclidean space', while >>>> actually higher dimensions have also an embedded geometry. >>>> >>>> Therefore you are right, that Euclidean geometry does not tell anything >>>> about material objects. >>>> >>>> But what about spaces with higher dimensions, from where our observable >>>> universe is an observable subset? >>>> >>>> Since our universe contains matter, the superset of our observable >>>> space >>>> must have a connection to matter, too. >>>> >>>> Such a space could be build from the equivalent to a point (but with >>>> more features than than only three spatial dimensions). >>>> >>>> This had to look from any perspective like a valid universe, because >>>> our >>>> current position in it is not supposed to be that special. >>>> >>>> So: what construct would fulfill this requirement??? >>>> >>>> My view: >>>> >>>> I assume spacetime of GR would exist and was build from 'elements', >>>> which behave 'anti-symmetric'. >>>> >>>> E.g. assume, that each 'point' is actually a bi-quaternion, which are >>>> connected to their neighbors in a multiplicative fashion according to >>>> p' = q * p * q^-1 >>>> >>>> Than local time would be a so called 'pseudoscalar' and imaginary to >>>> the >>>> so called 'hyperplane of the present' as if that was rotated by a >>>> multiplication with i. >>>> >>>> Then matter could be ragarded as 'timelike stable patterns of/in >>>> spacetime'. >>>> >>>> (a somehow better behaviour seem to have so called 'dual-quaternions'). >>>> >>>> ... >>>> >>>> >>>> TH >>> >>> Often "convolutional setting", symmetrical/anti-symmetrical >>> left-right right-left. >>> >>> In something like Geller's Heisenberg group pseudo-differential, >>> gets involved two symmetrical centers their dynamics. >>> (Kohn, Stein, Cummins, after Poincare, variously real, "complex", >>> "real analytic", ..., operators, kernels/cores, pseudo-differential.) >>> >> >> 'anti-symmetric' means, that a multiplication is not commutative, but >> changes sign, if the order of multiplicants are exchanged. >> >> Now this doesn't sound like being that important. >> >> But in fact it is, because we can see this type of symmetry everywhere. >> >> E.g. the human body has such characteristics of left and right >> 'handedness'. >> >> 'Anti-symmetric' also means, you would need two rotations to return an >> initial state. >> >> Now think about two anti-symmetric wheels in contact. >> >> Then these two wheels would rotate into the same direction. >> >> This would be really strange in our everyday experience, because it is >> opposite to how gears in a gearbox rotate. >> >> Now assume, that nature is actually build from tiny pointlike elements, >> which behave like such strange wheels. >> >> This could cause 'timelike stable patterns', because such anti-symmetric >> points could have features and those features could occur repeatedly and >> we may eventually call such structures 'matter'. >> >> >> This (apparently strange) idea would allow to explain all sorts of >> different experiences of the world around us and is actually very simple. >> >> But is based on a certain topology of the universe itself, which should >> be a smooth continuum, were points can have features. >> >> Only 'timelike stable patterns' (of such features) within spacetime are >> regarded as real entities ('matter'), what makes matter kind of >> 'ghostlike'. >> >> This is what makes most physicists dislike such a concept, because it >> would eliminate the idea of particles altogether. >> >> That in turn would allow to create matter out of nowhere (what is >> actually observed in 'Grwoing Earth' or 'magic dust') >> >> And that would violate one of the most sacrosanct principles of physics: >> the so called 'grand materialistic meta-paradigme'. >> >> BUT: nature tells us how nature functions, whether we like it or not. >> >> We humans have to live with it, whatever nature tells, whether it serves >> us or not. >> >> Therefore the question is not, whether the idea serves us or our >> personal life, but whether nature functions this way (or not). >> >> To ignore reality is a very, very bad idea and could cost much more than >> we could eventually gain by ignoring facts. >> >> >> TH >> >> >> >> > > Geller points at Boutet de Monvel, and Kree, in the "real-analytic", > about Szego projections, about the convolutional/pseudo-differential, > when: partials either way simply _won't_ do. > > A, sum-of-histories sum-of-potentials with least action and > a vanishing, yet non-zero gradient: is aligned with the > deconstructive, deductive account of a theory including > a physics, and since "what goes up: must come down". > > To be an objectivist realist is quite a thorough > ontological commitment, as with regards to what's: true, > a theory where the conserved quantity is, "truth". > > And there's nothing else, .... > > Good luck T.H., one hopes or "on espere" or "Mann hopf" ========== REMAINDER OF 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