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From: John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: New Bike Path
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2024 18:50:11 +0700
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On Thu, 18 Jul 2024 07:09:31 -0400, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Jul 2024 09:22:24 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 15 Jul 2024 18:25:57 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/15/2024 11:57 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
>>>>>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Basically, in town there is no way to build a safe bidirectional cycleway.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think there are rare exceptions, and I think "safe" is not a binary 
>>>>> condition. But I certainly think most introduce serious hazards not 
>>>>> present in normal roads.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Absolutely there is, plenty in london that work well, but they don?t cross
>>>>>> drive in sort of places but certainly in London the two tend to be in very
>>>>>> different locations!...
>>>>>> Town Bidirectional cycleway.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DeJ2xi7ZP2cbXsG9?g_st=ic
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Some junctions are light controlled others don?t warrant it, it seems to
>>>>>> work well, I only use it occasionally and often like I will on Sunday for a
>>>>>> Cheese market being Chiswick.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Adding special traffic lights just for bikes, as in your photo, can 
>>>>> help, but at a penalty of extra delays for both bikes and cars. I rode 
>>>>> bike lanes with extra bike traffic lights in Stockholm, for example, and 
>>>>> sometimes waited at our "special" red light while parallel cars had a 
>>>>> green. I saw other cyclists who seemed more familiar with the area 
>>>>> ignoring the red.
>>>>> 
>>>> Not special traffic lights it?s essentially the junction so just it?s own
>>>> phase or rather with the pedestrians, being a high street, this is
>>>> frequent, ie your not going to be doing 20+ mph like the Embankment its not
>>>> that set up.
>>>> 
>>>>> And if there are very many driveways, the hazard we're discussing exists 
>>>>> at each one. Turning your photo around shows this:
>>>>> https://maps.app.goo.gl/AxRNjBuU3RadBnUM8 followed by several other 
>>>>> junctions with streets or lots that would have been potential problems.
>>>>> 
>>>> it?s pragmatic so busy junctions are light controlled, others aren?t and
>>>> equally side entrances aren?t but none of these are busy, 
>>>> 
>>>> cycle traffic volumes has massively increased, the few side entrances don?t
>>>> seem to be a problem either anecdotally or in Transport for London?s data
>>>> that there is, it?s fairly new.
>>>> 
>>>> Roger Merriman
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> I see those "terrible, dangerous" bidirectional sidepaths being built
>>> all around here. The fact that a few timid bicyclists are afraid to
>>> ride on them hasn't deterred the rest of us.
>>> 
>>
>>Ones I see and use are by some margin better designed than the stuff Frank
>>has managed to find, ie entry on off and generally managed junctions and so
>>on.
>>
>>Every chance yours are closer to mine than his, as well he’s been selective
>>as ever.
>>
>>Roger Merriman
>
>I doubt that there is ever going to be a big movement to ban him from
>riding on the streets and roads where he likes to ride, at least not
>in the USA. If there is, I would definitely oppose it.
>
>On the other hand, Krygowski seems hell-bent on coercing everyone, or
>even forcing them through legislation, to be more like him. Now,
>there's a truly repulsive thought, but fortunately, he's failing on
>both fronts. 
>
>I rather like making my own decisions about most things.
> 
I keep reading all this foolishness about bike paths and all the
problems. Why not just do as we do here in Thailand?  see
https://touringthailandblog.wordpress.com/road-info/
Notice in many photos there is a center line and two white lines near
the edge of the road. The area behind the white line is for bicycles,
small motorcycles and other slow vehicles.

The below shows heavy traffic over the largest holiday of the year and
see that small left hand lane is not used by autos even in heavy
traffic.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2715106/holiday-traffic-crawling-out-of-capital

Of course this is not absolutely without problems as particularly in
cities that outer lane serves as a bus lane and in some places a
parking lane.

-- 
Cheers,

John B.