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From: j.nobel.daggett@gmail.com (LDagget)
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Creation Evidence Museum
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2024 17:53:27 +0000
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On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 17:34:19 +0000, erik simpson wrote:

> On 11/27/24 9:27 AM, RonO wrote:
>> On 11/27/2024 5:18 AM, LDagget wrote:
>>> On Wed, 27 Nov 2024 7:50:53 +0000, JTEM wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if anyone can actually counter this or if the
>>>> best you can manage, emotionally, is to act out like an
>>>> eight year old child.
>>>>
>>>> Guess which one I'm banking on. Go on: guess.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.facebook.com/reel/1709960086403655
>>>>
>>> It's pretty easy to suggest a reasonable explanation that could
>>> be readily tested. A brief review of the web fails to find
>>> documentation from tests performed.
>>>
>>> The consensus seems to be that it looks very much like a type
>>> of mining hammer what was in use in Texas (where it was found).
>>> The design is consistent with other mining hammers used in the
>>> early 1800s. There are similar artifacts known to be mining
>>> hammers in existence.
>>>
>>> Two obvious things to test would be the iron in the hammer head
>>> and the wooden shaft. I'd suggest metallurgical testing of the
>>> atomic composition of the head including isotopic analysis to
>>> be compared with a range of other artifacts known to have been
>>> used in Texas, and of course comparison to a range of iron
>>> artifacts from other sites around the world and other times.
>>>
>>> Special note: if anyone tries to make a claim about C14 in the
>>> hammer head they are a complete moron.
>>>
>>> I would however test the haft to determine the species of wood
>>> and a C14 date. Special care is needed when doing that date
>>> because the artifact is likely to be partially mineralized with
>>> contamination from the limestone that feed the concretion that
>>> it appears to be embedded in. The carbon in the limestone is
>>> of course a distinct source of carbon from the wood of the shaft.
>>> And of course the carbon in the limestone will be older than
>>> a range relevant to C14 dating.
>>>
>>> I can't help but notice that the haft is broken, much like a
>>> mining hammer haft would break.
>>>
>>> So ultimately, I speculate it is a mining hammer from the
>>> early 1800s that was broken and discarded in an active limestone
>>> cave. The active cave subsequently produced a concretion that
>>> enclosed the broken hammer. Concretions can form rapidly in
>>> active caves. They are what stalactites and stalagmites are.
>>>
>>> I'm not well versed in how to test the age of concretions but
>>> there are likely ways. It would be best to know exactly where
>>> the hammer was found so tests could also be made on the surrounding
>>> limestone sources.
>>>
>>> I will add that the fact that none of this, or perhaps better
>>> alternative testing, has apparently be done suggests that the
>>> keepers of this artifact are more interested in marketing a
>>> manufactured controversy than in understanding it.
>>>
>>> And to the broader audience, yes, I know. But this isn't
>>> Purina Troll Chow as it lacks the essential invectives.
>>
>> The hammer is supposed to be preflood according to Baugh, so a carbon
>> date of less than 1,000 years would mean that it was not preflood.  Noah
>> must have thrown it overboard when the Ark was drifting around for a
>> year, and it must have been drifting over Texas at the time Noah threw
>> it overboard.  I do not think that Baugh would think that Cain's
>> descendants (they were the ancient metal workers) had gotten to Texas
>> before the flood.  It sounds like this has more problems for
>> creationists than for anyone else.  How are they going to get a 19th
>> century hammer onto the ark or anywhere before the flood?
>>
>> It would be nice if the hammer was made out of the same gopher wood as
>> the ark was made of, but no one knows what gopher wood was.
>>
>> Ron Okimoto
>>
> Gopher wood is just a misprint.  Noah actually said "go for wood".

That in turn was a misunderstood translation. The lord used a wormhole
to supply and ultimately remove the vast mass of water needed for the
flood, obviously. But at the same time the wormhole was used to help
supply Noah with materials needed to build the Ark and for that he
sourced spam mailers from the early 21st Century CE, materials that
were in abundant supply and that nobody would miss. The precise nature
of the pharmaceutical spams is something I'm too shy to discuss but
the phrase "go for wood" might point the way.