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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!i2pn.org!i2pn2.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: joes <noreply@example.org> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: Halt Deciders must be computable functions --- dbush was always wrong Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 15:34:24 -0000 (UTC) Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org) Message-ID: <034849bd1e6ac3acfd3cbd8c891903c320053a35@i2pn2.org> References: <vr1shq$1qopn$1@dont-email.me> <vr9qu8$m4cu$2@dont-email.me> <vr9ttl$q57o$1@dont-email.me> <vr9udn$m4cu$3@dont-email.me> <vr9utm$qp25$1@dont-email.me> <vr9vqm$6dfe$1@dont-email.me> <vra0rj$s8bo$1@dont-email.me> <vra1qb$6dfe$2@dont-email.me> <vra6lc$11p12$1@dont-email.me> <vra6t7$6dfe$3@dont-email.me> <vraci2$16s8e$1@dont-email.me> <vrad2v$6dfe$4@dont-email.me> <vrae5c$16s8e$2@dont-email.me> <vraec6$6dfe$5@dont-email.me> <vrafln$16s8e$3@dont-email.me> <vrafrv$6dfe$6@dont-email.me> <vrahld$16s8e$4@dont-email.me> <vrai2i$6dfe$7@dont-email.me> <vrapae$1hild$1@dont-email.me> <vrju06$1p5m7$1@dont-email.me> <vrjuti$1ph95$1@dont-email.me> <vrk0cl$1qle0$1@dont-email.me> <vrmj54$6grp$1@dont-email.me> <vrmm1n$5bpl$6@dont-email.me> <vrolfd$23fvd$1@dont-email.me> <vrppnr$34p5p$1@dont-email.me> <4dddcc0340b82c30e5edd1e27d31320972b3eb4a@i2pn2.org> <vrqaom$3k9kh$1@dont-email.me> <3c463a92b9afe912e1438ea78bf04d346b9a6ae3@i2pn2.org> <vrrrdu$11a56$6@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2025 15:34:24 -0000 (UTC) Injection-Info: i2pn2.org; logging-data="1561223"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@i2pn2.org"; posting-account="nS1KMHaUuWOnF/ukOJzx6Ssd8y16q9UPs1GZ+I3D0CM"; User-Agent: Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a git.gnome.org/pan2) X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 4.0.0 Bytes: 3615 Lines: 40 Am Mon, 24 Mar 2025 09:49:34 -0500 schrieb olcott: > On 3/24/2025 6:23 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 3/23/25 8:59 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 3/23/2025 7:01 PM, joes wrote: >>>> Am Sun, 23 Mar 2025 15:08:25 -0500 schrieb olcott: >>>> >>>>> The behavior of a directly executing Turing Machine cannot be >>>>> computed because a directly executing Turing machine cannot be the >>>>> input to any computable function. >>>> Lol. This is such a ridiculously silly objection. Of course a TM is >>>> nothing but a finite string (or can be encoded as such). TMs are most >>>> definitely computable - UTMs are possible. >>>> >>> It is enormously more nuanced than that. >>> https://www.liarparadox.org/Linz_Proof.pdf >>> >>> Ĥ.q0 ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.UTM ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⟨Ĥ⟩ ⊢* Ĥ.qn >> >> Incorrect, UTM was never there;, so you are just showing that your >> logic was a lie. >> >> >>> When we define the Peter Linz Ĥ with a UTM that simulates a finite >>> number of "moves" >>> before transitioning to Ĥ.qn then Ĥ reaches Ĥ.qn and the simulated ⟨Ĥ⟩ >>> cannot possibly reach ⟨Ĥ.qn⟩. >>> >> Which is impossible, as such a thing is not a UTM. >> > Saying that a UTM that simulates a finite number of states is not a UTM > is like saying that a red car is not a car. The other way around: a limited TM is not universal. >> You are just showing that your logic is based on the presumption of the >> impossible and lies to fill the holes. > It is not impossible for a UTM to simulate a finite number of states. Neither is it identical to the direct execution (which doesn't stop). -- Am Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:35:31 +0000 schrieb WM in sci.math: It is not guaranteed that n+1 exists for every n.