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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Sufficient knowledge of C proves that DD specifies
 non-terminating behavior to HHH
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2025 18:43:17 -0500
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 2/10/25 9:46 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 2/10/2025 6:52 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Mon, 10 Feb 2025 06:02:48 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 2/10/2025 5:16 AM, joes wrote:
>>>> Am Sun, 09 Feb 2025 13:54:39 -0600 schrieb olcott:
>>>>> On 2/9/2025 1:33 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 20:04 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 12:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 10:50 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 16:18 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/9/2025 2:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 09.feb.2025 om 07:10 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:54 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 15:47 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2025 3:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 08.feb.2025 om 06:53 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 7:27 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 8:12 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 5:56 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/25 11:26 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/7/2025 6:20 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 10:02 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 8:21 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 5:18 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 1:51 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/25 1:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/6/2025 10:52 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 16:11 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2025 1:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am 05.02.2025 um 04:38 schrieb olcott:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Which proves that HHH fails to make a correct decision about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DD's halting behaviour. All other methods (direct execution,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation by a world class simulator, etc.) show that DD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halts. But HHH fails to see it. Everyone with sufficient
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding of programming sees that HHH is not correctly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programmed when it aborts one cycle before the simulation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would end normally.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace only shows that HHH is unable to complete
>>>>>>>>>>>> its simulation, because HHH is unable to simulate itself.
>>>>>>>>>> It turns out that Olcott does not even understand this simple
>>>>>>>>>> proof that HHH produces false negatives. HHH is unable to
>>>>>>>>>> simulate itself up to the normal termination.
>>>>>>>> So, in other words, Olcott denies verified facts.
>>>>>>>> HHH generates false negatives, as is verified in
>>>>>>>>           int main() {
>>>>>>>>             return HHH(main);
>>>>>>>>           }
>>>>>>>> but he denies it.
>>>>>>>> He lacks the ability to accept simple verified facts, which he
>>>>>>>> tries to hide with a lot of irrelevant words.
>>>>>>> It is a verified fact that main cannot possibly be correctly
>>>>>>> simulated by HHH until its normal termination.
>>>>>> Indeed, which proves that HHH is unable to simulate itself correctly.
>>>>> If this was true then you could point out exactly where HHH is
>>>>> incorrect.
>>>> HHH is supposed to be a decider, i.e. halt and return the correct
>>>> value.
>>> The directly executed HHH(DD) always halts and returns a correct value
>>> as soon as it correctly determines that its input cannot possibly
>>> terminate normally.
>> We were talking about HHH(HHH). If the outer HHH halts according
>> to spec, so does the inner, because it is the same. Therefore
>> it can’t report „non-halting” and be correct. If the inner HHH
>> doesn’t halt, it is not a decider.
>>
>>>>> Here is the code point out the (nonexistent) error:
>>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c#L502
>> Look at it.
>>
> 
> That is not an error.
> It is a verified fact that DD correctly simulated by HHH cannot
> possibly terminate normally. The line you referred to does not
> change that verified fact.
> 


Nope, you have only verified that OTHER HHHs looking at OTHER DD get 
into an infinite loop when trying to simulate.

Sorry, wrong problem.