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From: bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (bertietaylor)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: On Arindam Banerjee's recoil-less rail gun and Newton's 3rd Law
   violations in electrodynamics
Date: Wed, 1 May 2024 09:05:30 +0000
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Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

> On 2024-04-30 23:55:40 +0000, Volney said:

>> On 4/30/2024 7:26 PM, bertietaylor wrote:
>>> Aether Regained wrote:
>>> 
>>>> bertietaylor:
>>>>> Aether Regained wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aether Regained:
>>>>>>> @ArindamBanerjee
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I took a look at your video of your 'recoil-less' rail gun:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My Movie8feb2022
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYtyOMbgiZ0
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My first impression was that, there is an obvious recoil of the 'gun' or
>>>>>>> rails+supercapacitors section, but you claim in the description that:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "... we are creating momentum from internal energy/force in this
>>>>>>> experiment. The heavy (3Kg) armature is accelerated by electromagnetic
>>>>>>> forces. There is a recoil, the rest of the apparatus weighs 4.3Kg - BUT
>>>>>>> THAT IS DUE TO THE FRICTION FROM THE ROLLING ARMATURE. ...  As I have
>>>>>>> shown in my other videos, the force that accelerates the armature has
>>>>>>> very little recoil, and this new effect can be used to make reactionless
>>>>>>> motors for the proper conquest of space."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> You have worked on this for a long time, but I think you are maybe
>>>>>>> overlooking that whatever electromagnetic forces act on the current
>>>>>>> flowing through the rolling bar/'armature', near [*] exactly opposite
>>>>>>> electromagnetic forces will act on the other end of the rails, i.e., on
>>>>>>> the oppositely flowing current through the supercapacitors, and the
>>>>>>> center-of-mass of the whole system will remain near stationary.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [*] It is well known that in electrodynamics, Newton's 3rd law is
>>>>>>> inexact, namely it will appear to be violated if the momentum in the
>>>>>>> aether or em field is not also considered. I urge you to carefully read
>>>>>>> FLP-II:26-2, especially the last paragraph, and also FLP-II:27-6 on the
>>>>>>> (Electromagnetic) Field Momentum.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_27.html#Ch27-S6
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "FLP-II:27-6: We pointed out in Section 26–2 the failure of the law of
>>>>>>> action and reaction when two charged particles were moving on orthogonal
>>>>>>> trajectories. The forces on the two particles don’t balance out, so the
>>>>>>> action and reaction are not equal; therefore the net momentum of the
>>>>>>> matter must be changing. It is not conserved. But the momentum in the
>>>>>>> field is also changing in such a situation. If you work out the amount
>>>>>>> of momentum given by the Poynting vector, it is not constant. HOWEVER,
>>>>>>> THE CHANGE OF THE PARTICLE MOMENTA IS JUST MADE UP BY THE FIELD
>>>>>>> MOMENTUM, SO THE TOTAL MOMENTUM OF PARTICLES PLUS FIELD IS CONSERVED."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think it is premature to believe that your inconclusive results can be
>>>>>>> the basis of a space motor. For that purpose, you may want to take a
>>>>>>> look at PROJECT ORION:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> which is a design by the late Freeman Dyson, that works, and does not
>>>>>>> involve continuously ejecting mass.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Just a clarifying addendum to the OP:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> In light of:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_27.html#Ch27-S6
>>>>> 
>>>>> Irrelevant
>>>>> 
>>>>>> "FLP-II:27-6: We pointed out in Section 26–2 the failure of the law of
>>>>>> action and reaction when two charged particles were moving on orthogonal
>>>>>> trajectories. The forces on the two particles don’t balance out, so the
>>>>>> action and reaction are not equal; therefore the net momentum of the
>>>>>> matter must be changing. It is not conserved. But the momentum in the
>>>>>> field is also changing in such a situation. If you work out the amount
>>>>>> of momentum given by the Poynting vector, it is not constant. HOWEVER,
>>>>>> THE CHANGE OF THE PARTICLE MOMENTA IS JUST MADE UP BY THE FIELD
>>>>>> MOMENTUM, SO THE TOTAL MOMENTUM OF PARTICLES PLUS FIELD IS CONSERVED."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Feynman does not believe in fields. He believes in particles of energy
>>>>> following e=mcc=hv
>>>>> Anyway his opinions are worthless in this context which is based upon
>>>>> Maxwellian electrodynamics.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> the correct momentum balance equation for Arindam's rail gun is:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> (1) [rail gun momentum]_{backward} + [em field momentum]_{backward} =
>>>>>> [rolling bar momentum]_{forward} + [em field momentum]_{forward}
>>>>> 
>>>>> Wrong. There is forward momentum found experimentally with my later 2023
>>>>> videos with their detailed analysis and graphs.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> For a working space motor design, the following has to be satisfied:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> (2) [rolling bar momentum]_{forward} >> [rail gun momentum]_{backward}
>>>>> 
>>>>> Which is tge case from my 2023 videos, the latest ones.
>>>>> However as the bar rolls there is a significant backward monentum from
>>>>> the friction upon the rails.
>>>>> Sliding will lessen it.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> or what amounts to the same thing:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> (3) [em field momentum]_{backward} >> [em field momentum]_{forward}
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm skeptical that for the given rail gun setup, (2) or (3) holds. Also,
>>>>>> it seems to me that, if all the energy in the supercapacitors were
>>>>>> expended in generating a laser pulse, it is more likely that (3) would
>>>>>> be achieved.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Check out my latest videos and the graphs. You should be able to find
>>>>> them from my links in sci.physics. Or I will repost here.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Arindam Banerjee, for Bertie and Tyler, my faithful ghostly cyberdogs.
>>> 
>>>> ElectroBOOM's take on the rail gun:
>>> 
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJRDclzi5Vg
>>> 
>>>> On a more serious note, the laws of conservation of energy, linear
>>>> momentum and angular momentum are at the foundations of both classical
>>>> and modern physics.
>>> 
>>> Yes. So read my bew physics which upgrades Newtonian and Maxwelluan 
>>> physics. That us much of classical physics. And all of modern physics.
>>> 
>>>> If you make the EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM that these have
>>>> been falsified, EXTRAORDINARY EVIDENCE will be demanded -- a lot more
>>>> than crude experiments, made with half assed or hardly any instrumentation.
>>> 
>>> They were done with what was sufficient for the purpose. They can be 
>>> compared with the experiments of Archimedes and his SG experiments, 
>>> Torricelli and his water barometer, Galileo and his telescope, Curie 
>>> with their radioactivity, Galvani and his frogs, Faraday and his early 
>>> motors. Yes it is extraordinary that way. Just scales, and a 
>>> multimeter. But very latest equipment like supercapacitors were used 
>>> and a video camera with 30-40 ms resolution.
>>> 
>>> For such outstanding results from such simplicity, against all odds, 
>>> just homself with no or negative help, with only his savings to fund 
>>> the work... only Arindam, the greatest genius of all time could do it.

> I thought "Dr" Hachel was the greatest genius of all time, or am I confused?

You are old and foolish. And lost your sense of smell as well, bow-wow chappie. SAD.

bt (Arindam's best friends)




>>> 
>> No, Banjo, what he said is true. Extraordinary claims require 
>> extraordinary evidence. Low quality youtube videos without a proper 
>> writeup are worthless, and you will be ignored as you should be. Too 
>> bad, if in the unlikely event you were actually on to something, it 
>> will have to wait until the next person to come along and discover it 
>> (and write a proper scientific paper on his discovery).