Path: ...!Xl.tags.giganews.com!local-4.nntp.ord.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 17:58:58 +0000
From: Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg
Subject: Re: The Passing of the Mad Overlord
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2024 13:58:58 -0400
Message-ID: <0utbdj1edtkdp8t8jd29bj5a7uomlhtjf9@4ax.com>
References: <kdv6djpcduvcsi48k10r4jvuojv48u1fq0@4ax.com> <34m8djpf921bjvkt96ntrtu1chd3qf1lo3@4ax.com> <vba9djlgavpufnesgoo85tqkgv95ndcs3v@4ax.com> <vb3l9g$1s8ca$1@dont-email.me>
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 85
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
X-Trace: sv3-n8ZqyWC7WCF4uHNqADz3l72jgAu6h6EznHQaoSraCDE/Mssmi5bPOUGUp0A7uJF68ErUmm9s7MtYjuR!JTRs7zNrDmcfm4ZSstuOq2bqzLbHMx4uG/GvrIlveizegY3ov35Oq2caLVS0lIja2+zGpt22
X-Complaints-To: abuse@giganews.com
X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 4462

On Mon, 2 Sep 2024 08:17:20 +0200, "Werner P." <werpu@gmx.at> wrote:

>Am 01.09.24 um 20:16 schrieb Spalls Hurgenson:
>> Were the Wizardry games actually/harder/ than "Bards Tale" or "Ultima
>> I"? Maybe not. Like I said, I'm not enough of an expert on those games
>> to really say. But my subjective experience was that they felt a lot
>> less forgiving.
>Well Bards Tale was at least unfair (the first title) it let you choose 
>a party without a Bard and then you failed miserably without it in the 
>last dungeon before finish...
>
>But I think Bards Tale sold well due to its visuals, it simply had the 
>best visuals for any RPG of its time back then. Wizardry until Bradley 
>took over the series always had dated graphics. They were fine when part 
>1 came out, but they kept the same engine without significant visual 
>improvements until including part 4. Part 5 was a bradley game renamed 
>to wizardry, Part 6 was the first real wizardry under Bradleys rule!
>
>Btw. hardly an expert myself never played any of the Wizardries, but 
>thats what I gathered about those games on the net!
>
>Btw Unlike Ultime which was killed by EA, Wizardry still lives, the 
>series just went to japan over various really obscure paths, and new 
>Wizardry games are developed there which now slowly make their way back 
>to the West!


Undeniably "Bards Tale" looked better. But it's not really a fair
comparison; the first three "Wizardry" games all came out _years_
before the first "Bards Tale" was released.

Of course, this defense breaks down with "Wizardry IV", which came out
in 1987 and still looked a lot like its 1981 predecessor ;-)


    [It's also quite subjective, but I also thought the 
     visuals of the early "Ultimas" (contemporary with 
     "Wizardry I-III") looked nicer. Sure, the dungeon 
     graphics in "Ultima" were _a little_ more primitive, 
     but the overworld was colorful and detailed.]


Still, Wizardry didn't /always/ have dated graphics. At one point, it
was quite advanced. But it definitely couldn't compete with later
games. 

So I don't think Bards Tale won solely on its looks. Certainly they
helped. But the gameplay was solid -and arguably, was more accessible-
and I think that contributed too.


    [On a related note: the first game that /really/ 
     impressed me with its visuals? The one that made me 
     stop and think, 'wow, this game has awesome artwork'? 
     "Dragon Wars", released in 1989. Until then, all game 
     visuals were quite workaday in my eyes; they got the 
     idea across but still felt crude approximations. But 
     "Dragon Wars" felt special; its visuals made it feel 
     like a real world. Even though the gameplay really 
     wasn't anything special, I have such fond memories
     of that game.]





A Timeline of some of the games discussed:

	Game		Initial Release
	-------------------------------
	Wizardry I 	(1981)
	  Ultima I   	(1981)
	Wizardry II	(1982)
	  Ultima II  	(1982)
	Wizardry III 	(1983)
	  Ultima III	(1983)
	Ultima IV	(1985)
	  Bards Tale I 	(late 1985)
	Might & Magic I (1986)
	  Bards Tale II	(1986)
	Bards Tale III	(1988)
	  Ultima V	(1988)
	Might & Magic II(1988)
	  Dragon's Age	(1989)