Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Product packaging
Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 04:46:21 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 93
Message-ID: <1004k6e$32ubk$1@dont-email.me>
References: <10036nt$2nup1$1@dont-email.me> <10036s0$2nup1$2@dont-email.me>
 <1004gjs$32ldv$2@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 13:46:24 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="6e1564967e62cf856f19704cdf8e9e44";
	logging-data="3242356"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19gQGD4Yj1zp5xG4gcfwGxh"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:HaZ1ygdq1pvU9b/93LL1eDyjdyM=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <1004gjs$32ldv$2@dont-email.me>

On 5/15/2025 3:45 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 14/05/2025 23:52, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/14/2025 3:50 PM, Don Y wrote:
>>> A necessary condition is that devices be easily cleaned,
>>> without the benefit of sight (so people aren't "grossed out"
>>> by the accumulated dirt and grime on a device used by an
>>> unsighted individual:  "Don't you ever CLEAN that?")
> 
> Does that mean basically making it IP67 so that it can survive dunking in a 
> basin of warm soapy water?

No.  There are openings and mechanisms involved that prevent it
being "water tight".

But, instead of just slapping things together with a goal of making
it all fit, you have to consider how to keep it looking "presentable".
The "user" (if blind) won't see what it looks like; but (sighted) folks
around him would and would be influenced by this sort of thing.

It's like using a bathroom at a friend's house -- and finding
it dirty and unkempt.  In the back of your mind, you'd revisit
that image as you sat down to dinner at his table...

> I have seen stuff intended for clean rooms where everything is made as smooth 
> as possible and all moving parts hermetically sealed behind a flexible membrane 
> that is very easy to wipe down.

Yes.  When doing pharma, we chose materials that were reasonably inert to
the types of solvents/cleaning-agents that would be used as well as
the amount of labor required to ensure a "good clean".  E.g., if you
had been making viagra and were switching over to an antihypertensive,
you wouldn't want to risk "cross contaminating" the one with residue
from the other.

Like "this product is manufactured on machinery that is also used to
process NUTS".

[A company even went so far as to design a tablet press -- large and
heavy pieces of steel -- that could be "cleaned in place"... essentially
turning it into a giant fish bowl!]

> Environment where (noxious) chemical spills are a real possibility.
> 
>> By way of common example:  look down at your mouse.
>> Chances are, there are bits of dead skin hiding in the
>> various seams between the assembled covers, buttons,
>> etc.  And, the handled surfaces likely show signs of wear.
> 
> In my case mouse buttons have a high polish and I still use keyboards that work 
> OK even when the legends have long since worn completely off the most commonly 
> used keys. "Q" and "Z" never seem to wear out. Advantage of touch typing.

The (blind) client who initially alerted me to this issue had a
notetaker (does what you think it does) that he would drag around.
Apparently, folks would comment about how dirty it would get
(oils from hands, dirt, etc.).

He, of course, couldn't SEE where to clean it.  Nor could he
simply "wipe it clean".

I've already taken some measures to facilitate those sorts
of actions (e.g., disable touch panel for 30 seconds while
you are wiping it clean -- to avoid activating anything
unintentionally).

But, the actual materials being used are hard to "fast forward"
and imagine how they hold up to years of use.

E.g., I have found a coating that gives items a textured sort
of feel (almost like rubber but with no appreciable thickness)
that I've encountered in many places.  But, it doesn't seem
to age well.  I often find samples where this coating has become
sticky -- to the point where touching it is uncomfortable.

And, CLEANING it with simple agents doesn't work;  I invariably
resort to scrubbing with mineral spirits (to actually REMOVE the
failed coating)

> Ancient mice with balls were pretty gross when they stopped working.
> 
> Last keyboard I had to retire got a glass of wine spilled into it and did not 
> recover after careful washing with distilled water.

A colleague used to take keyboards into his swimming pool to clean
them!  (Huh?  Does that actually work??)

I periodically disassemble my keyboards, wash the keycaps in soapy
water and wipe up all the detritus that has accumulated under the keycaps.
Then, use a swab soaked in alcohol to pick up the malingerers.

This is a good example of how making wipe clean surfaces actually
penalizes usability; imagine using a "membrane keyboard" to type!
Easy to clean but a real drag on typing speed and accuracy!