Deutsch English Français Italiano |
<1004nhq$34c0m$1@dont-email.me> View for Bookmarking (what is this?) Look up another Usenet article |
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: The Spanish Grid Drop-out - recently released information. Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 14:43:37 +0200 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 37 Message-ID: <1004nhq$34c0m$1@dont-email.me> References: <vvnvto$3kd3i$1@dont-email.me> <vvo0k4$3kq8j$1@dont-email.me> <vvo5gv$3lr47$1@dont-email.me> <rf8v1klb6d9djefqfr2e2g8f9k3lgotka2@4ax.com> <n-q*qgicA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <vvtium$18vkn$1@dont-email.me> <vvtovo$1a4th$1@dont-email.me> <WLHUP.255339$v2h6.142714@fx14.iad> <vvvm80$1sf5m$1@dont-email.me> <kB1VP.48755$JRnc.12987@fx37.iad> <10032b6$2n0o4$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Thu, 15 May 2025 14:43:38 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8391961971dde3f5c53fe1291de1914a"; logging-data="3289110"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18INcOIZZK8LZyNxBkql3Xg" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.13.0 Cancel-Lock: sha1:IbReDzswnY4ygVwMwtSAFLJjsCA= In-Reply-To: <10032b6$2n0o4$1@dont-email.me> Content-Language: en-US, fr-FR, nl-NL On 5/14/25 23:35, Don Y wrote: > On 5/14/2025 7:16 AM, Glen Walpert wrote: >> On Tue, 13 May 2025 07:50:36 -0700, Don Y wrote: >> >>> On 5/13/2025 6:26 AM, Glen Walpert wrote: >>>>> I don't think that using broadcast radio for real time mains grid >>>>> control is a good idea. It would be far too unreliable. >>>> >>>> Point to point RF links have been in use in (mostly hard wired) grid >>>> control SCADA (System Control And Data Acquisition) systems for at >>>> least 30 years, which is when a former employer did some work on a >>>> SCADA upgrade project for the Egyptian Electrical Authority. A search >>>> on 'SCADA radio link' will turn up several vendors. >>> >>> And they used these to control instantaneous frequency and phase? Or, >>> just coarse data collection and /supervisory/ control? >> >> SCADA is used to monitor and control the grid, where control is done in >> real time by adjusting the set points for real and reactive power at all >> controlled power sources. A small percentage of sources being >> inaccessible degrades control by an insignificant amount. > > "Real-time" means different things to different applications. > > I took Theo's upthread suggestion to mean broadcasting a *reference* > that all genertors would track -- instead of using the actual power line, > itself. I.e., the spain event could have been avoided if such a broadcast > reference were used by each generator DISREGARDING THE ACTUAL POWER SIGNAL. > [...] Sounds like a perfect recipe to blow things up. No individual generator can pretend to force the grid. Either they track or they trip. Driving power into the grid only makes sense in reference to what is happening at the injection point. Jeroen Belleman