Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: What it would take... People to address my points with reasoning
 instead of rhetoric -- RP
Date: Fri, 16 May 2025 10:19:54 -0500
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On 5/16/2025 9:09 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 5/16/25 10:00 AM, olcott wrote:
>> On 5/16/2025 8:25 AM, joes wrote:
>>> Am Wed, 14 May 2025 12:22:26 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>> On 5/14/2025 12:15 PM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>> On 14/05/2025 17:43, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/14/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>>>>> On 14/05/2025 17:04, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The HP proofs require an input D that can actually do the opposite
>>>>>>>> of whatever value that H returns. Such an input cannot possibly
>>>>>>>> exist.
>>>>>>> Agreed. That is precisely what Turing proved.
>>>>>> The proof itself cannot exist because it is missing a key element.
>>>
>>> Yes, it is missing the halt decider.
>>>
>>>> When you try to encode *AN INPUT* that actually does the opposite of
>>>> whatever value that its termination analyzer returns in a fully
>>>> specified language such as C you will find this is impossible.
>>> DD is exactly that.
>>>
>>>> In a less fully specified language it is far too easy to get confused
>>>> about what *AN INPUT* is and what it is not.
>>> DD (or its code) calling the aborting HHH is the input.
>>>
>>
>> int main()
>> {
>>    DD(); // Only idiots expect HHH to report on its caller.
>> }
>>
> 
> Only PATHOLOGICAL LIARS excpet that the call HHH(DD) doesn't mean to 
> answer about what the actual DD does when run,
> 
> Oh, I guess that answers who you are.
> 
> You just admitted that you think the truth is idiotic.

Mike explains all of the details of how the
Sipser quote does derive a correct Simulating Halt Decider.

On 5/14/2025 7:36 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
 > There is a natural (and correct) statement that Sipser
 > is far more likely (I'd say) to have agreed to.
 >
 > First you should understand the basic idea behind a
 > "Simulating Halt Decider" (*SHD*) that /partially/
 > simulates its input, while observing each simulation
 > step looking for certain halting/non-halting patterns
 > in the simulation. A simple (working) example here
 > is an input which goes into a tight loop.
(Mike says much more about this)

*Click here to get the whole article*
https://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C1003cu5%242p3g1%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Message-ID: <1003cu5$2p3g1$1@dont-email.me>


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer