Article <100cprg$115dk$1@dont-email.me>

Deutsch English Français Italiano
<100cprg$115dk$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: Oklahoma religious movement in public education
Date: Sun, 18 May 2025 09:11:57 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 370
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <100cprg$115dk$1@dont-email.me>
References: <vs8pgc$1aumq$1@dont-email.me>
 <2bufuj5vircef3j71mflruobb29c24tbl2@4ax.com> <vs9624$1nr00$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="72759"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:wVmCJL3Mdtx/uC3LOB5vs5hP98Q=
In-Reply-To: <vs9624$1nr00$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
	DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FORGED_REPLYTO,
	FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,
	NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,
	RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED,
	RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,
	URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,
	USER_IN_WELCOMELIST,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
	version=3.4.6
	smtp.eternal-september.org

On 3/29/2025 11:10 AM, RonO wrote:
> On 3/29/2025 9:02 AM, Rufus Ruffian wrote:
>> RonO wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/supreme-court/battle-religion- 
>>> schools-oklahoma-decide-future-first-amendment-rcna191114
>>>
>>> Apparently the attempt to use the Bible as a textbook has been blocked
>>> by the state's supreme court, but they are likely to appeal to the
>>> supreme court eventually.  The claim is that Judeo-Christian religious
>>> belief is an important component for understanding Western civilization
>>> and history.  Just think of how much of classic literature has Biblical
>>> references (probably a lot of them would be banned by the religious
>>> bigots in Oklahoma if they could).
>>>
>>> It should be noted that COPE (the ID Network turned into COPE in order
>>> to sell the switch scam without having ID in the name of their
>>> organization) failed to sell the switch scam to Oklahoma for more than a
>>> decade.  The Oklahoma creationist rubes would not bend over for the
>>> switch scam if they could not tell the students the religious reason for
>>> the obfuscation and denial.
>>>
>>> Instead Oklahoma is trying a more honest and open approach to getting
>>> their religious notions into the public schools.  The article indicates
>>> that the current US Supreme court may be open to the current ploy.
>>>
>>> Ron Okimoto
>>
>> Ron, the info you share about H5N1 is great. It's important stuff that
>> doesn't get enough attention. Thanks for posting it here to this very
>> limited audience.
>>
>> You get a bit wrought when you're up on step, over ID perps and
>> scammers. The repetitive demonization distracts from your otherwise
>> lucid points.
>>
>> Can you explain what you mean about the "bait and switch scam"? Who are
>> the baiters, what bait are they offering to whom, and what's their
>> switcheroo? Is it Discovery types trying to convince YECers they have
>> science to support YECism, then trying to sell them ID science instead,
>> or something completely different? I don't quite get that. TIA!
>>
> 
> It should be common knowledge that the intelligent design creationist 
> scam started out as a means to recreate a theocracy that the members 
> believed had once existed in the US.  They started the Center for 
> Renewal of Science and Culture a the Discovery Institute in order to 
> implement their Wedge Strategy for getting that done.
> 
> http://web.archive.org/web/19980114111554/http://discovery.org/crsc/ 
> aboutcrsc.html
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy
> 
> https://ncse.ngo/wedge-document
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santorum_Amendment#:
> 
> Utah Law review article:
> http://web.archive.org/web/20030323095628/http://law.gonzaga.edu/people/ 
> dewolf/utah.pdf
> 
> Teaching the Controversy: Darwinism, Design and the Public School 
> Science Curriculum:
> https://arn.org/docs/dewolf/guidebook.htm
> It should be noted that Meyer was the director of the ID scam unit and 
> DeWolf was head of Legal for the Discovery Institute.
> 
> 
> The ID perps at the Discovery Institute believed that they could use 
> their creation science as a wedge to break the strangle hold that they 
> believed real science had on society.  They initially changed the name 
> of what they were doing from scientific creationism to intelligent 
> design.  They believed that getting their religious beliefs taught as 
> science in the public schools was the best means for reestablishing a 
> theocracy that they believed had been subverted in this country.  The ID 
> perps understood that what they were calling intelligent design had 
> already been designated as not worth teaching in the public schools by 
> the Supreme Court, so they started claiming that they had a scientific 
> theory of intelligent design to teach in the public schools.  The Wedge 
> document (published in 1998) had getting ID taught in the public schools 
> of 10 states as one of it's 5 year goals.
> 
> The ID perps published their teach ID scam booklet in 1999 and a Utah 
> Law Review Article claiming that it was legal to teach intelligent 
> design theory in the public schools in 2000.  In 2000 they made a big 
> deal about the Santorum "amendment" to the no child left behind 
> legislation claiming it as support for teaching intelligent design in 
> the public schools.  Their Santorum "amendment" claims brought them 
> national attention even though the "amendment" did not get into the 
> legislation, but could be found in an Appendix.  Several states started 
> talking about teaching intelligent design in their public schools.

I should note that Phillip Johnson (The ID perp that supposedly 
developed the Wedge strategy and got the ID scam unit of of the 
Discovery Institute funding) was claimed to have written the draft of 
the "amendment" that Santorum submitted for inclusion in the No child 
left behind bill.  Both Phillip Johnson and Santorum likely had the bait 
and switch run on them in Ohio in 2002 along with the Ohio creationist 
rubes.  Both likely did not expect the bait and switch to go down, and 
they both supported teaching intelligent design in Ohio.

https://www.arn.org/docs/ohio/washtimes_santorum031402.htm

Santorum submitted this editorial the weekend before the ID perps ran 
the bait and switch on the Ohio rubess.  Phillip Johnson linked to the 
editorial on his ARN Blog and agreed with Santorum, probably, before 
Johnson knew the bait and switch was going down.  There was no reason 
for Johnson to make Santorum look like a fool since Johnson was the one 
that got Santorum to submit his amendment to the no child left behind 
legislation.

QUOTE:
Today, the Board of Education will discuss a proposal to insert 
"intelligent design" alongside evolution in the state's new teaching 
standards.

Supporters for a change in teaching standards want the board to include 
the idea that living things could have been "designed" in some 
meaningful way. Sen. Ted Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat, approves of 
having alternate theories taught in the classroom. He believes children 
should be "able to speak and examine various scientific theories on the 
basis of all information that is available to them so they can talk 
about different concepts and do it intelligently with the best 
information that is before them."

The theory of intelligent design, which predates ancient Greece, 
contends that nature shows tangible signs of having been created by a 
pre-existing intelligence. This is in contrast to Charles Darwin's 
theory, which assumes all physical and material reality has gradually 
evolved through pure chance and natural selection, whereby the fittest 
members of each species survive and reproduce.

Critics of intelligent design, such as the newly formed Ohio Citizens 
for Science, claim that intelligent design is not a viable scientific 
theory and should not be taught in the classroom. They fear it is 
creationism in disguise, and hence, propagates religion in public 
schools. Despite a recent poll that shows overwhelming support for 
including the theory in the new teaching standards, these critics 
continue to resist its adoption.

This opposition to intelligent design is surprising since there is an 
increasing body of theoretical and scientific evidence that suggests an 
alternate theory is possible. Research has shown that the odds that even 
one small protein molecule has been created by chance is 1 in a billion. 
Thus, some larger force or intelligence, or what some call agent 
causation, seems like a viable cause for creating information systems 
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========