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Path: ...!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv Subject: Re: [OT] Judge reams out people avoiding jury duty Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 04:33:49 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 162 Message-ID: <100k35d$c8fs$31@dont-email.me> References: <100j7o7$c8fs$26@dont-email.me> <100java$2glu0$1@dont-email.me> <100jc9v$c8fs$27@dont-email.me> <100je1k$2glu0$3@dont-email.me> <100jhul$c8fs$29@dont-email.me> <100jinh$2logg$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Wed, 21 May 2025 10:33:51 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="9d37da6a888670205dc44571bbdd5188"; logging-data="401916"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX185uNGffQYzAKM4OitPYqRPl6yPrfcLT6U=" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:aoSLbByWrMz/HIn6W+/2dOBZItk= X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 250521-0, 5/20/2025), Outbound message In-Reply-To: <100jinh$2logg$1@dont-email.me> X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Content-Language: en-CA Bytes: 8631 On 2025-05-20 11:53 PM, BTR1701 wrote: > On May 20, 2025 at 8:40:03 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> > wrote: > >> On 2025-05-20 10:33 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>> On May 20, 2025 at 7:03:41 PM PDT, "Rhino" <no_offline_contact@example.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2025-05-20 9:40 PM, BTR1701 wrote: >>>>> On May 20, 2025 at 5:45:58 PM PDT, "Rhino" >>>>> <no_offline_contact@example.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> A judge in Hamilton, Ontario gathered a whole lot of people who had >>>>>> failed to turn up for jury duty and demanded to know why. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/hamilton-courtroom-fail-to-obey-jury-duty-summons/article_6719b3d0-6d16-58bc-801e-62bf15b3fed1.html >>>>>> >>>>>> I've only been called once and I showed up. The defendant made a last >>>>>> minute decision to plead guilty and the whole jury pool of 250 was >>>>>> dismissed so I wasn't there very long. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm under the impression that most Americans feel that only fools fail >>>>>> to wiggle out of jury duty. Is this true? >>>>> >>>>> I'd actually enjoy serving on a jury, especially now that I'm retired and >>>>> have >>>>> time to kill. Even when I was working, the FedGov's policy is to pay >>>>> you the >>>>> whole time you're on jury duty as if you were at work, so you don't >>>>> lose any >>>>> money and you get (potentially) a week out of the office. A lot of people >>>>> aren't so lucky and don't get paid while on a jury. Most, if not all, >>>>> states >>>>> have laws that prohibit an employer from firing you for jury duty but they >>>>> don't have to pay you while you're on one. >>>> Interesting. I think employers in this country have to pay you for the >>>> time you are on the jury but it may not be your normal pay. It may just >>>> be minimum wage, which would be a major cut for people with good jobs. >>>> When I told my employer about my summons, they assured me it wouldn't be >>>> a problem for them but it was inconvenient for me because I was working >>>> an evening shift that ended around midnight so I didn't get my full >>>> night's sleep before showing up for the jury pool. >>>>> >>>>> When I retired, I embarked on something I’d wanted to do for years and >>>>> packed >>>>> up the car and just started lazily driving around the country, >>>>> state-by-state, >>>>> staying in various places, sometimes a week at a time, to see all the >>>>> sights. >>>>> L.A. to Key West, Florida to Maine, etc. The trip took me a month and a >>>>> half. >>>>> >>>> That's all? I can imagine a trip like that lasting years. >>>> >>>>> When I finally returned home, I found a long-expired summons for jury duty >>>>> in >>>>> my accumulated mail. I called the number on the summons and explained what >>>>> had >>>>> happened. The woman looked up the number on my summons and said it was no >>>>> problem, they'd just cancel it in the system and issue a new summons >>>>> for me >>>>> since I was home now and being retired had no work conflicts with serving. >>>>> And >>>>> a few days later, a new summons showed up. >>>> >>>> Clearly, there are *some* reasons that are considered acceptable for not >>>> answering the summons and you hit on one of them ;-) >>>> >>>>> I went and got eliminated the >>>>> moment both sides discovered I was a lawyer. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Is being a lawyer a get-out-of-jury-duty card in every trial? >>> >>> No, but both sides generally don't like people in the jury room that can >>> both >>> explain the law to the other jurors and tell them all the legal tricks that >>> lawyers pull to keep evidence away from the jury. >>> >>> In CA, there are, however, exceptions written into the law that they have no >>> discretion about granting. (Being a lawyer isn't one of them.) If you meet >>> them, it's an automatic pass. >>> >>> One of them is that you can decline to serve if you're a certified peace >>> officer (cop) and they have a whole list of like 20 different types of cops >>> that qualify, everything from a standard beat cop to a fish and game warden, >>> but federal agents are nowhere on that list so I still had to go when I got >>> a >>> summons back in 2016. >>> >>> I figured I'd go in, fill out the background questionnaire and when the >>> lawyers realized I was a federal cop, they'd kick me immediately, but I >>> actually ended up serving on the jury. I was stunned. During voir dire, >>> neither the prosecution nor the defense seemed to have any problem with me >>> being both a lawyer and police. (It was an aggravated DUI case.) >>> >>> Even the judge, who has everyone's forms up on the bench, was perplexed. As >>> they were about to move on to the next potential juror, she stopped them, >>> then >>> asked me if I would have any problem presuming the defendant innocent given >>> my >>> background in law enforcement. She was obviously trying to signal to the >>> defense that I was a cop in case he missed it. I said I felt I could and the >>> defense attorney, who must have been fresh off the set of LAW & ORDER, still >>> asked me no questions and didn't object at all. >>> >> It's interesting that the judge tried to "help" the defence. I'm a >> little surprised the prosecutor didn't object. > > She was helping both sides, really. It's true the defense usually objects to > cops but prosecutors don't much care for them on the jury, either. Same reason > as lawyers: they know all the details about how things are done, like crime > scene processing, and can point out to jurors when things seem to be 'missing' > or suppressed. > I guess it's true that sausage makers don't like outsiders knowing how the sausage actually gets made.... >>> So I ended up getting picked for the jury. My boss didn't believe me. He >>> thought for sure I was just saying I got picked so I could take a few days >>> off. He even showed up in the courtroom to watch one morning of testimony. >>> >> That's funny! I would have thought he'd just ask to see your jury >> summons. Maybe HE was the one looking for a day off ;-) >> >>> (We found the guy guilty.) >>> >> I hope he learned his lesson. Some drunks apparently DO clean up their acts. >> >>>> Do they at least make sure you don't have a criminal record when they >>>> compile >>>> their lists of prospective jurors? >>> >>> I would assume so. They do ask you about any arrests or convictions you've >>> had >>> on the questionnaire. I don't imagine they just take people's word for it >>> when >>> they say no, though. >>> >> I certainly hope not. >> >>>> What about language? If you don't have >>>> fluency in the language the court is using, are you automatically >>>> disqualified from serving or do they find an interpreter for you? >>> >>> In my trial, the judge excused an ancient Chinese lady from serving who >>> could >>> barely speak English. >>> >> >> A wise move on the part of the judge. > > > -- Rhino