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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: How do computations actually work?
Date: Fri, 23 May 2025 13:19:57 -0500
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On 5/23/2025 1:03 PM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 23.mei.2025 om 19:00 schreef olcott:
>> On 5/23/2025 11:16 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 5/23/25 12:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/23/2025 2:14 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-05-23 03:31:15 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/22/2025 10:23 PM, wij wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2025-05-22 at 21:47 -0500, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> [cut]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Q: How do computations actually work?
>>>>>>> A: Computation is merely step-by-step algorithm.
>>>>>>> Nothing says it has to be TM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do the exercises in textbooks first before any claim of it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>> {
>>>>>>    DD(); // by what steps can the HHH that DD calls
>>>>>> }       // report on the behavior its caller?
>>>>>
>>>>> If we don't insist that the report be correct:
>>>>> 1. guess
>>>>> 2. tell what was guessed
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This does not work because all computable functions
>>>> that implement termination analyzers must compute
>>>> the mapping from their input finite string according
>>>> to the behavior that it specifies. In my concrete
>>>> examples DDD must be simulated by HHH according to the
>>>> rules of the x86 language.
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>
>>>> DDD specifies that it will continue to call HHH
>>>> until HHH sees the repeating pattern and aborts
>>>> its simulation.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, they must compute the mapping, but the rules don't say HOW.
>>
>> *They never bothered to say HOW until NOW*
>> The ultimate definition of a correct simulation
>> is a simulation according to the definition of
>> the simulation language.
>>
>> One is not free to interpret "push ebp" as "jmp 00002183".
>>
> 
> And one is not free to halt the simulation and ignore the halting 
> behaviour specified in the remainder of the input, because it is against 
> the rules of the simulation language.

_DDD()
[00002192] 55             push ebp
[00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
[00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192
[0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
[0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
[000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
[000021a3] c3             ret
Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]

Show me how DDD correctly simulated by HHH
reaches its own "ret" instruction.

You won't do this because you know that you
are a damned liar.

-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer