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Path: ...!weretis.net!feeder9.news.weretis.net!news.quux.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> Newsgroups: sci.logic Subject: Re: Simple enough for every reader? Date: Sat, 24 May 2025 11:13:17 +0300 Organization: - Lines: 29 Message-ID: <100rv2t$jpca$1@dont-email.me> References: <100a8ah$ekoh$1@dont-email.me> <100ccrl$upk6$1@dont-email.me> <100cjat$vtec$1@dont-email.me> <100fdbr$1laaq$1@dont-email.me> <100funo$1ous9$1@dont-email.me> <100haco$24mti$1@dont-email.me> <100hocb$2768i$1@dont-email.me> <100mpm7$3csuv$1@dont-email.me> <100much$3drk8$1@dont-email.me> <100p8v7$k2$1@dont-email.me> <100pbot$dmi$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 24 May 2025 10:13:18 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="a92e9505b497257da2a717d3d8824ea7"; logging-data="648586"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+iwFT+Z06QKw/WiGoatCci" User-Agent: Unison/2.2 Cancel-Lock: sha1:eh5dDlUXW109WYRMWSyumubqzm8= Bytes: 2419 On 2025-05-23 08:31:27 +0000, WM said: > On 23.05.2025 09:43, Mikko wrote: >> Do you mean that every natural number is dark until >> someone mentions it but no longer? >> > Every natural number is dark in a system that cannot represent it in > any form like writing, thinking or whatever. The pocket calculator is > limited to decimal representations below 10^100, the universe is > limited to more or less sophisticated formulas requiring less than > 10^80 bit. > > In every system almost all natural numbers are and remain dark - if an > actual infinity of them exists. That is not a useful concept as it is not possible to know wich numbers are presentable in future sysems and which will be actually presented. At the end of the web page https://mlevanto.github.io/lauseke.html there is an arithmetic expression that evaluates to a 65600 digit number. Although the value of the expression is not written there I used that digit sequence (and several others, some even longer) when I wrote the page. We don't know whether our universe is finite or infinite. or wheter it can be fully described with finite information. -- Mikko