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From: BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: John Roberts won't save Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia
Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 02:20:58 -0000 (UTC)
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On May 25, 2025 at 3:29:19 PM PDT, ""Adam H. Kerman"" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>> May 25, 2025 at 12:15:05 PM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com>:
>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>> May 25, 2025 at 12:26:09 AM PDT, shawn <nanoflower@notforg.m.a.i.l.com>:
>>>>> Sat, 24 May 2025 23:37:51 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>:
>>>>>> Tue, 8 Apr 2025 04:17:01 -0000 (UTC), BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com>:
> 
>>>>>>> You do realize the guys they're going after have already had their
>>>>>>> hearings and just ignored their deportation orders, right? Do we
>>>>>>> need to give them another hearing about the hearing? And then maybe
>>>>>>> a third hearing to examine the first and second hearings?
> 
>>>>>> If the guy already has had the hearing they're entitled to, what's
>>>>>> left other than execution of the deportation order?
> 
>>>>>> Perhaps he might be hauled into court to verify that the deportation
>>>>>> order is valid but at that point he gets cuffs and a one way trip to
>>>>>> either the airport or to the border right?
> 
>>>>>> You simply don't have the right to unlimited stays of warrants. I'm
>>>>>> all for due process but you don't have the right to come up with a new
>>>>>> excuse ad infinitum.
> 
>>>>> Putting him into a maximum prison for life isn't exactly the same as
>>>>> deporting someone.
> 
>>>> He was deported to his home country. His home country had issues with
>>>> his gang affiliation and imposed punishment for it under their laws.
> 
>>> Let's not pretend the government prosecuted him with evidence they could
>>> present in court. He was received in El Salvador then transported to
>>> prison. There was no trial.
> 
>> He's an El Salvadoran citizen. He came to the U.S. illegally. It's absurd
>> to say we can't deport him back to his own country because they don't
>> have the equivalent of the Bill of Rights there. Most countries in the
>> world don't have the same robust protection of freedoms that we have,
>> so using that standard, we couldn't deport anyone anywhere ever.
> 
> We can't deport him because an administrative law judge said so. There
> cannot be a final order of deportation. This is a fact not in dispute;
> even the Trump lawyer acknowledged this in court.
> 
> Typically, we don't honor extradition to countries who indict their
> citizens for crimes that would not be crimes in the United States.

Which would be relevant if we were discussing extradition. Deportation is an
entirely different thing.

>>> The gang participation in New York, not El Salvador, he was alleged to
>>> have committed came from a government informant who made shit up. He
>>> wasn't in New York. Trump administration officials repeated what the
>>> informant said but he was never indicted nor prosecuted because the
>>> Trump administration had no case to make.
> 
>>> Trump didn't even pretend to have evidence of crimes he may have
>>> committed in El Salvador.
> 
>>> They've swept up massive numbers of their own citizens as criminals with
>>> no police investigations and having gathered no evidence. Using the
>>> crisis of out-of-control gang crimes, the government itself violated due
>>> process and made arrests without probable cause.
> 
>>> Sure they've got laws but they aren't laws we'd recognize here.
> 
>> Which could be said of every country in the world. Britain has laws regarding
>> free speech but they aren't laws we'd recognize here. They have laws
>> regarding
>> self-incrimination but they don't provide the same protections we recognize
>> here. Etc., etc....
> 
> If the UK requested extradition under such circumstances, it's illegal
> for us to honor it. Yes, I understand that deportation and extradition
> are not the same thing, but we actually care about such things.
> 
> Your claim that he's in prison because El Salvador can prove he
> committed a felony is not true.

In El Salvador, apparently gang affiliation is enough to land you in stir.
That's their law and he's their citizen. Maybe he shouldn't have joined a
murderous gang if things aren't working out for him there.