Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: FromTheRafters <FTR@nomail.afraid.org>
Newsgroups: sci.math
Subject: Re: Log i = 0
Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 10:59:20 -0400
Organization: Peripheral Visions
Lines: 54
Message-ID: <1011vkb$229o9$1@dont-email.me>
References: <sYEiFg9bb-rpcOy6CMCFxOsQvKw@jntp> <100u1hr$164q1$1@dont-email.me> <h0z1WzuRt17jRInBMV41NIJRQYo@jntp> <100v4db$1clol$1@dont-email.me> <100vb6e$1e1uv$1@dont-email.me> <100ve7j$1ek0p$1@dont-email.me> <100vf19$1ela4$1@dont-email.me> <100vfr3$1ek0p$2@dont-email.me> <100vih5$1fh1n$1@dont-email.me> <1011u94$20v84$2@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: erratic.howard@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 16:59:24 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="2bff0f7d79246d2ed956cd075e1cb417";
	logging-data="2172681"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19z0QAdH7m+wdhQgvAUYP12g7pE/M3Bu1c="
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EM5KwHWcEBB2Kckm3mzjg9M/fFA=
X-Newsreader: MesNews/1.08.06.00-gb
X-ICQ: 1701145376

on 5/26/2025, WM supposed :
> On 25.05.2025 19:03, efji wrote:
>> Le 25/05/2025 � 18:17, sobriquet a �crit�:
>>> Op 25/05/2025 om 18:03 schreef efji:
>>>> Le 25/05/2025 � 17:50, sobriquet a �crit�:
>>>>> Op 25/05/2025 om 16:58 schreef efji:
>>>>>> Le 25/05/2025 � 15:02, sobriquet a �crit�:
>>>>>>> There is no certainty in math. But when you encounter conflicting 
>>>>>>> claims
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, that's exactly the opposite :)
>>>>>> There is nothing but certainties in math, since everything is proved in 
>>>>>> a non-discutable way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not really.. for instance, there are people who reject proofs by 
>>>>> contradiction, so some proofs might be acceptable to some while being 
>>>>> rejected by others.
>>>>> Also, things that used to be considered obviously true, like the 
>>>>> shortest distance between two points being a straight line have later 
>>>>> become uncertain (with the potential curvature of geometry as opposed to 
>>>>> flat geometry).
>>>>> And there is evidence that we can't even have a completely reliable 
>>>>> system where we can prove everything that is true and nothing that is 
>>>>> false, since G�del has shown that any formal system that includes basic 
>>>>> arithmetic must necessarily be incomplete.
>>>>
>>>> Well, that's true about G�del's theorem: it says that there exists some 
>>>> propositions that cannot be proven true or false. It does not imply that 
>>>> what is proved can be "uncertain"!
>>>>
>>>> In practice, what we call "maths" in 2025 is totally proved in a rigorous 
>>>> way, with the proper hypothesis clearly given. The famous example of the 
>>>> "straight line" is historical and is related to a period of time where 
>>>> the logical basis of maths where not strongly established. We are not in 
>>>> the XIX's century any more!
>>>>
>>>> 99.9999% of mathematicians accept the proofs by contradiction,
>>>> and I really wonder what is the point of the remaining 0.0001% :)
>>>>
>>>
>>> But the same holds for science. It's reasonable to assume that theories
>>> like evolution are proven beyond reasonable doubt, but philosophically 
>>> speaking, there is no certainty in science.
>> 
>> Yes, there is no certainty in science, EXCEPT in maths !
>> Take any maths book or article, take any proposition entitled "Theorem", 
>> you know that it is true forever, without any doubt and without any chance 
>> that somebody in 1000 years in the future could disprove it, whatever 
>> "science" will be at this time.
>
> That is wrong. Present mathematics simply assumes that all natural numbers 
> can be used for counting. But that is wrong.

No, you simply misunderstand what countability means.