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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Bad faith and dishonesty
Date: Mon, 26 May 2025 10:25:43 -0500
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On 5/26/2025 3:42 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 26.mei.2025 om 04:22 schreef olcott:
>> On 5/25/2025 9:00 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>> On 25/05/2025 21:30, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 5/25/2025 3:05 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>> On 5/25/2025 3:56 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> *Mike understood this perfectly*
>>>>>> On 5/14/2025 7:36 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>> --------- Sipser quote -----
>>>>>>     If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its input D 
>>>>>> until H
>>>>>>     correctly determines that its simulated D would never stop 
>>>>>> running
>>>>>>     unless aborted then H can abort its simulation of D and correctly
>>>>>>     report that D specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>> ----------------------------
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we can easily interpret that as saying exactly what I said a SHD
>>>>>> does above.  It tells PO that in the tight loop example, H correctly
>>>>>> simulates as far as [A], at which point it correctly determines that
>>>>>> "its simulated input would never stop running unless aborted", so
>>>>>> it can decide "non-halting".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All correct and natural, and no deliberately
>>>>>> false premises to mislead PO.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/14/2025 7:36 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>> https://al.howardknight.net/? 
>>>>>> STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C1003cu5%242p3g1%241%40dont-email.me%3E 
>>>>>
>>>>> And you dishonestly left out the part that immediately follows 
>>>>> where he states that you are wrong:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *VERFIED FACT*
>>>> Mike Terry Proves ---
>>>> How the requirements that Professor Sipser agreed to are exactly met
>>>
>>> Just for the record:
>>>
>>> 1)  I didn't offer any proofs of /anything/
>>>
>>> -  I did explain how Sipser's words can be naturally interpreted as 
>>> explaining
>>>     how a simulating halt decider can operate.  [That is not a proof.]
>>>
>>
>> It seems like proof to me.
>> When-so-ever anyone provides complete and correct reasoning
>> showing how an expression of language is true, this is a proof.
>>
>>> -  I also explained why that explanation *doesn't* apply to your HHH/ 
>>> DDD pair
>>>
>>
>> Yes you did do this.
>>
>> *On 5/14/2025 7:36 PM, Mike Terry wrote*
>> the simulated input (DD) /does/ stop running if simulated
>> far enough, but HHH simply /doesn't/ go far enough
>>
>> _DDD()
>> [00002192] 55             push ebp
>> [00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>> [00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192
>> [0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
>> [0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
>> [000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
>> [000021a3] c3             ret
>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]
>>
>> I use the simpler DDD because everyone here gets
>> completely confused even by this simple example.
>>
>> How many recursive emulations does HHH have to
>> wait before its emulated DDD magically halts
>> on its own without ever needing to be aborted?
>>
>> Once you and I work through this one point I may
>> finally have complete closure.
> Again you make the same mistake by not only changing the decider, but 
> also the input.
> We are discussing the input where DDD calls a HHH that aborts after one 
> cycle.

*No we are not. We are discussing this*

*On 5/14/2025 7:36 PM, Mike Terry wrote*
the simulated input (DD) /does/ stop running if simulated
far enough, but HHH simply /doesn't/ go far enough


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer