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From: Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: How do computations actually work?
Date: Wed, 28 May 2025 10:43:31 +0300
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On 2025-05-27 15:48:14 +0000, olcott said:

> On 5/27/2025 3:37 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2025-05-26 15:57:11 +0000, olcott said:
>> 
>>> On 5/26/2025 3:46 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2025-05-25 14:53:06 +0000, olcott said:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/25/2025 4:14 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-05-24 15:18:57 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5/24/2025 2:47 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-05-23 02:47:40 +0000, olcott changed the subject to
>>>>>>>>> How do computations actually work?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Each computation works differently. It does not matter how it works as
>>>>>>>> long as there are instructions that fully specify how that computation
>>>>>>>> shall be performed.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> All termination analyzers are required to report on the
>>>>>>> behavior that their input finite string specifies.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To report correctly. Though the input string to a termination analyzer
>>>>>> usially is incomlete: the input string usually specifies different
>>>>>> behavours depending on the input that is not shown to the termination
>>>>>> analyzer, and the analyzer's report must cover all of them.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> A partial termination analyzer may fail to report but is not allowed
>>>>>> to report incorrectly.
>>>>> 
>>>>> void DDD()
>>>>> {
>>>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>>>    return;
>>>>> }
>>>>> 
>>>>> DDD simulated by HHH cannot possibly reach its
>>>>> "return" statement final halt state, only liars
>>>>> will disagree.
>>>> 
>>>> Again a straw man deception. Where reasonable people disgraee is the
>>>> relevance of that claim. The behavour specified by DDD does reach the
>>>> final return from DDD. Whether HHH can simulate that part of the
>>>> behaviour is irrelevant. Even without the simjlation HHH decides
>>>> correctly if and only if it determines and reports that DDD halts.
>>> 
>>> _DDD()
>>> [00002192] 55             push ebp
>>> [00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>> [00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192
>>> [0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
>>> [0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>> [000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
>>> [000021a3] c3             ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]
>>> 
>>> How many recursive emulations does HHH have to
>>> wait before its emulated DDD magically halts
>>> on its own without ever needing to be aborted?
>> 
>> In order to determine that you need a program that simulates DDD and all
>> functios DDD calls and detects and counts and reports emulation levels.
> 
> No you don't. All that you need to do is simply imagine
> that HHH is an x86 emulator capable of emulating itself
> emulating DDD. // *This is fully operational code*

Well, you needn't if you have a good substitution. But imagination is
not a good substitution of real work with a real tool.

-- 
Mikko