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From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: 25 Classic Books That Have Been Banned
Date: Thu, 29 May 2025 08:29:10 -0700
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Delusions:

The Maya believed that their rulers blood sacrifices insured the 
continuity of
their culture but they were wrong.
The Aztec believed that if they kept sacrificing captives it would ensure
the rising of the sun on a regular basis. They were in error.

The Christian believe that the sacrifice of Jesus aka Reb Jeshua would
'wipe away the sins of mankind but mankind keeps on sinning, never
more so than promoting Christianity or their chosen mythos such as
Marxism,  (Karl not Groucho) or Capitalism, exploiter of many and
whenever possible en-slaver of many...

In case you wonder I prefer Regulated Capitalism hampered by
laws to avoid it poisoning the body politic with corrupt practices
and unregulated pollution of the rest of the world.

On 5/29/25 01:55, Robert Carnegie wrote:
> On 27/05/2025 18:05, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
>>> [Miracles and laws of nature]
>>> More assertions:
>>> 1. Jesus had something to say about those who sought "signs and
>>> wonders". And it wasn't very nice.
>>
>> 1) How do you know such a person actually existed?
>>
>> 2) How do you know that person, assuming he existed,
>>     said anything about "signs and wonders"?
>>
>> Don't point to the KJV - primary contemporaneous sources only.
> 
> I've read the book (mostly not KJV).  I don't know
> what Paul thinks is "not nice" about "miracles",
> but I do remember the Jesus character doing plenty
> of miracles and specifically saying that the purpose
> of this was to persuade people to accept his
> religious teaching.

	Of course, Why else are miracles inserted in the legends of
various teachers but to make you believe the stories they are
telling about them.


> 
> Reasonably, his treatment of medical conditions
> up to "being dead several days" with miracles
> also can be interpreted as motivated by sympathy
> for sufferers, except that Jesus also says that
> people suffered these medical conditions in the
> first place so that he could do the miracles
> on them.
> 
> As for atheism and laws of nature, I see those
> as two separate things.  I see atheism as neither
> a belief nor disbelief, but a choice of not
> worshipping gods.  In this, a person shouldn't
> have to decide whether for instance a mysterious
> invisible entity exists, or whether the Roman
> Emperor is a god (conventionally yes when dead)
> but only whether to propitiate gods.  And if
> a person is forced by other people to worship
> a god, then, unwillingly, they are worshipping.
> Clearly this is considered to have value,
> otherwise what is the purpose of making them
> do it?

	Clearly neither of us have been blessed with its Noodly
grace nor any of the other gods in which someone will tell
us to believe.

	You want to believe in a divine entity, try the Goddess
Discordia aka Eris, because we see her vicious influence
in nearly all human affairs.  To live up to her standards
you must not eat hot dog buns on Fridays.

> 
> If you want atheism to be a belief, then it
> can be a belief that it isn't necessary to
> worship gods.

	It can be fun though especial in fertility cults.

> 
> Scientific knowledge mostly relies on presuming
> that material substance behaves according to
> consistent principles, which are called laws
> of nature.  It is usually assumed that this is
> intrinsic to the material substance and not
> continually performed by God, although philsophers
> have flirted with the contrary idea.  Amongst
> problems of everything being miraculous are that
> God then is morally responsible for everything
> that happens, and that you are supposing that
> God didn't and couldn't or wouldn't create
> anything that would persist of its own accord,
> which looks like hardly creating things at all.
> But as I say, it's been talked of.
> 
	Well there is Proton decay eventually so that
whatever created the Universe just did the best
that they could.  Universe as a temporary contrivance
to allow chemically based life or was Chemical life
just a happy accident.

	Whatever! Just be grateful that we have a space
and a little time to be in.

> Religious miracles usually are understood as
> a god causing matter to behave other than as by
> the natural laws.  But this doesn't require
> that matter doesn't contain and obey laws of
> nature the rest of the time.  And while it
> suggests that the god should be worshipped,
> that remains a choice.  And what if several
> competing gods offer miracles for your
> consideration?  And some of them could be
> faking it.  There are "magic" tricks with no
> supernatural element.

	Check out the Miracles attributed to the missonary
who carried Buddhism to Tibet.
	What is buried at the tomb of Saint Agatha which
is responsible for some miracles.(the bones of a goat).

> 
> Also, as Arthur C. Clarke revealed to us,
> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is
> indistinguishable from magic."  So for instance,
> some miracles could be performed with concealed
> magnets.  Especially if someone doesn't know
> that magnets exist.

	The Egyptian made arrangement that permitted stone
statues of there gods to speak. The Laity were unaware of
the contrivance. Gotta get those tithes any way you can.
How about Bingo?

	bliss