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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Disagreeing with tautologies is always incorrect
Date: Fri, 30 May 2025 10:36:09 +0200
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Op 29.mei.2025 om 18:00 schreef olcott:
> On 5/29/2025 10:46 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 29.mei.2025 om 17:37 schreef olcott:
>>> HHH is a simulating termination analyzer that uses
>>> an x86 emulator to emulate its input. HHH is capable
>>> of emulating itself emulating DDD.
>>>
>>> HHH is executed within the x86utm operating system
>>> that enables any C function to execute another C
>>> function in debug step mode.
>>>
>>> *Here is the fully operational code*
>>> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
>>>
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>    return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> _DDD()
>>> [00002192] 55             push ebp
>>> [00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>> [00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192
>>> [0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
>>> [0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>> [000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
>>> [000021a3] c3             ret
>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]
>>>
>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
>>>      input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D
>>>      would never stop running unless aborted then
>>>
>>> It is a tautology that any input D to termination
>>> analyzer H that *would never stop running unless aborted*
>>> DOES SPECIFY NON-TERMINATING BEHAVIOR.
>>>
>> Indeed, but the input given to HHH is a pointer to memory starting 
>> with the code of DDD. DDD has the addresses of the functions it calls, 
>> so those functions are also available to HHH. 
> 
> None-the-less the tautology remains true and thus
> cannot be correctly denied.
> 
>> This program includes the code where the program aborts and halts. If 
>> HHH would correctly analyse this input, it would see that no abort is 
>> needed. 
> 
> If the outermost HHH does not abort its simulated DDD
> then the simulated DDD, the executed DDD() and the executed
> HHH() never stop running. That you cannot understand that
> this is factual is no rebuttal what-so-ever.
> 
But the innermost HHH has code to abort. Whether that is good or bad is 
not interesting, the point is: it is there.
So, there is no need for the outermost HHH to abort and by this bug it 
misses the fact the innermost HHH already has an abort in its code.
That you cannot understand the verified fact that the simulation of an 
aborting simulator does not need an abort. Remove the non-aborting HHH 
from your brain. It confuses your thinking. There is no such HHH in this 
problem. There is only a buggy HHH that aborts, which therefore does not 
need an abort when simulated.