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From: "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: International law support for Israel's boundaries
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2025 19:32:58 -0000 (UTC)
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BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>Jun 1, 2025 at 10:19:02 AM PDT, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

>>I have very limited understanding of the status of Israel's boundaries
>>in international law. I've done basic reading; I know how and when
>>specific boundaries were drawn. But their legal status?

>>There are two ways an international boundary gets international
>>recognition at the time of declaration of a state, either by bi-lateral
>>or multi-lateral treaty in which the boundary is demarcated, or by
>>international custom.

>Well, there's a third way: you enforce the borders ruthlessly against anyone
>who attacks you and tries to cross them. If you can hold the territory by
>force, it becomes yours.

Yes, of course, like the Russian Empire and Putin pretending to be
Catherine the Great.

But this is about the nonstop accusation that Israel, by its mere
existence, is a colonizer, committing genocide, and illegally preventing
the innocent Arabs from establishing the Jew-free state in Palestine,
all of which is illegal under international law.

Except, if actual international law is applied without making an
exception for the Jews, then that supports Israel.

>>In the surrender of the Ottoman Empire (or whatever country it was) in
>>WWI, Turkey no longer claimed control of the Middle East and French and
>>British Mandates carved up massive amounts of territory.

>>Legally, the Mandate was not colonization nor occupation. It was
>>administration intended to lead to new states. But the Mandate --
>>created as part of the multi-lateral peace treaty ending World War One
>>-- has international legal recognition long predating the United
>>Nations.

>>The British drew a variety of borders for administrative purposes.
>>Pre-WWI, when there were various powers occupying Egypt over the
>>centuries, Turkey, France during the Napoleonic wars, and the British,
>>the line was drawn in 1906 between Britain and the Ottoman Empire
>>through unpopulated desert that wouldn't be disputed. Egypt wasn't a
>>country but had plenty of autonomy.

>>This boundary became one of the boundaries of Mandatory Palestine. The
>>boundary between Israel and Jordan was based on the 1920 demarcation of
>>the eastern boundary of mandatory Palestine, although Transjordan was
>>added to the British, er, mandate/occupation/administration in 1921 but
>>administered separately.

>>So various peace treaties Israel is party to incorporate these British
>>drawn administrative lines by reference as international boundaries.

>>This is international boundary BY CUSTOM, not by treaty, for it is
>>CUSTOMARY to recognize the boundaries of a state at time of declaration
>>as having been created within existing territory without a treaty to the
>>contrary.

>Is this how CHAZ managed to establish it's own state in the heart of Seattle
>during the Summer of Love?

I thought it was by not bathing.