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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: DDD emulated by HHH diverges from DDD emulated by HHH1
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2025 21:51:03 -0500
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On 6/3/2025 9:42 PM, dbush wrote:
> On 6/3/2025 10:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/3/2025 8:57 PM, dbush wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2025 5:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/3/2025 3:48 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>> Am Tue, 03 Jun 2025 14:47:23 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 3:28 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>> Op 02.jun.2025 om 17:52 schreef olcott:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by HHH diverges from DDD correctly 
>>>>>>>> emulated by
>>>>>>>> HHH1 as soon as HHH begins emulating itself emulating DDD, marked
>>>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>>> *HHH1 never emulates itself emulating DDD*
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *This is the beginning of the divergence of the behavior*
>>>>>>>> *of DDD emulated by HHH versus DDD emulated by HHH1*
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Misleading words when you change the meaning of diverging.
>>>>>>> Mike showed the traces side by side. Even after many requests, you
>>>>>>> still cannot show the first instruction that is interpreted 
>>>>>>> differently
>>>>>>> by HHH and HHH1. The only difference is that HHH gives up the
>>>>>>> simulation too early.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As soon as HHH begins emulating itself and HHH1 NEVER begins 
>>>>>> emulating
>>>>>> itself THIS IS THE DIVERGENCE.
>>>>> Yes, that is exactly the point where HHH aborts. 
>>>>
>>>> Both the divergence and the abort are shown below.
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [00002183] 55             push ebp
>>>> [00002184] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [00002186] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000218b] e833f4ffff     call 000015c3 ; call HHH
>>>> [00002190] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>> [00002193] 5d             pop ebp
>>>> [00002194] c3             ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002194]
>>>>
>>>> _main()
>>>> [000021a3] 55             push ebp
>>>> [000021a4] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>> [000021a6] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>> [000021ab] e843f3ffff     call 000014f3 ; call HHH1
>>>> [000021b0] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>> [000021b3] 33c0           xor eax,eax
>>>> [000021b5] 5d             pop ebp
>>>> [000021b6] c3             ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0020) [000021b6]
>>>>
>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>>>>   address   address   data      code       language
>>>>   ========  ========  ========  ========== =============
>>>> [000021a3][0010382d][00000000] 55         push ebp      ; main()
>>>> [000021a4][0010382d][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; main()
>>>> [000021a6][00103829][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>> [000021ab][00103825][000021b0] e843f3ffff call 000014f3 ; call HHH1
>>>> New slave_stack at:1038d1
>>>>
>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:1138d9
>>>> [00002183][001138c9][001138cd] 55         push ebp      ; DDD of HHH1
>>>> [00002184][001138c9][001138cd] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD of HHH1
>>>> [00002186][001138c5][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000218b][001138c1][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
>>>> New slave_stack at:14e2f9
>>>>
>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored at:15e301
>>>> [00002183][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 55         push ebp      ; DDD of HHH[0]
>>>> [00002184][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD of HHH[0]
>>>> [00002186][0015e2ed][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000218b][0015e2e9][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH
>>>> New slave_stack at:198d21
>>>>
>>>> THIS IS WHERE THE DIVERGENCE OF DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>> AND DDD EMULATED BY HHH1 BEGINS
>>>
>>> So how exactly do HHH and HHH1 emulate the first instruction of HHH 
>>> differently?
>>>
>>
>> The question is incorrect.
>> HHH emulates DDD two times and HHH1 emulates DDD one time
>> the whole second time is the divergence.
> 
> There is no divergence if the instructions are emulated exactly the same 
> in both cases.  

HHH1(DDD) emulates DDD exactly one time.
HHH(DDD) emulates DDD exactly two times.

The whole second time that HHH emulates DDD is
divergence.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer