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From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: DDD emulated by HHH diverges from DDD emulated by HHH1
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2025 07:32:36 -0400
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On 6/3/2025 11:53 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/3/2025 10:29 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 6/3/2025 11:26 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/3/2025 10:20 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 6/3/2025 11:07 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/3/2025 9:54 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 10:51 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 9:42 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 10:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 8:57 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 5:14 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 3:48 PM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Tue, 03 Jun 2025 14:47:23 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2025 3:28 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Op 02.jun.2025 om 17:52 schreef olcott:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD correctly emulated by HHH diverges from DDD correctly 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH1 as soon as HHH begins emulating itself emulating 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD, marked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HHH1 never emulates itself emulating DDD*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *This is the beginning of the divergence of the behavior*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *of DDD emulated by HHH versus DDD emulated by HHH1*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Misleading words when you change the meaning of diverging.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike showed the traces side by side. Even after many 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requests, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still cannot show the first instruction that is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpreted differently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by HHH and HHH1. The only difference is that HHH gives up the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simulation too early.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As soon as HHH begins emulating itself and HHH1 NEVER 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> begins emulating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself THIS IS THE DIVERGENCE.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, that is exactly the point where HHH aborts. 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Both the divergence and the abort are shown below.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] 55             push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002184] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002186] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000218b] e833f4ffff     call 000015c3 ; call HHH
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002190] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002193] 5d             pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002194] c3             ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002194]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _main()
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a3] 55             push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a4] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a6] 6883210000     push 00002183 ; push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021ab] e843f3ffff     call 000014f3 ; call HHH1
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021b0] 83c404         add esp,+04
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021b3] 33c0           xor eax,eax
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021b5] 5d             pop ebp
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021b6] c3             ret
>>>>>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0020) [000021b6]
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>   machine   stack     stack     machine    assembly
>>>>>>>>>>>   address   address   data      code       language
>>>>>>>>>>>   ========  ========  ========  ========== =============
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a3][0010382d][00000000] 55         push ebp      ; main()
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a4][0010382d][00000000] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; main()
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021a6][00103829][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [000021ab][00103825][000021b0] e843f3ffff call 000014f3 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HHH1
>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:1038d1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored 
>>>>>>>>>>> at:1138d9
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183][001138c9][001138cd] 55         push ebp      ; DDD 
>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH1
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002184][001138c9][001138cd] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD 
>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH1
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002186][001138c5][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000218b][001138c1][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HHH
>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:14e2f9
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Begin Local Halt Decider Simulation   Execution Trace Stored 
>>>>>>>>>>> at:15e301
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 55         push ebp      ; DDD 
>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH[0]
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002184][0015e2f1][0015e2f5] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; DDD 
>>>>>>>>>>> of HHH[0]
>>>>>>>>>>> [00002186][0015e2ed][00002183] 6883210000 push 00002183 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> push DDD
>>>>>>>>>>> [0000218b][0015e2e9][00002190] e833f4ffff call 000015c3 ; 
>>>>>>>>>>> call HHH
>>>>>>>>>>> New slave_stack at:198d21
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> THIS IS WHERE THE DIVERGENCE OF DDD EMULATED BY HHH
>>>>>>>>>>> AND DDD EMULATED BY HHH1 BEGINS
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So how exactly do HHH and HHH1 emulate the first instruction 
>>>>>>>>>> of HHH differently?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The question is incorrect.
>>>>>>>>> HHH emulates DDD two times and HHH1 emulates DDD one time
>>>>>>>>> the whole second time is the divergence.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There is no divergence if the instructions are emulated exactly 
>>>>>>>> the same in both cases. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HHH1(DDD) emulates DDD exactly one time.
>>>>>>> HHH(DDD) emulates DDD exactly two times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The whole second time that HHH emulates DDD is
>>>>>>> divergence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let the record show that Peter Olcott has failed to identify an 
>>>>>> instruction that HHH and HHH1 emulated differently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When HHH emulates itself emulating DDD and emulates
>>>>> DDD a second time this second emulation of DDD begins
>>>>> at its own address 00002183.
>>>>>
>>>>> HHH1 only emulates DDD exactly once.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant, as that does not change the fact that the emulations 
>>>> performed by HHH and HHH1 are exactly the same up to the point that 
>>>> HHH aborts, as you have just admitted on the record:
>>>>
>>>
>>> No matter what anyone ever said or misconstrued the
>>> actual execution trace proves:
>>>
>>
>> That the emulations performed by HHH and HHH1 are identical up to the 
>> point that HHH aborts,
> 
> Counter-factual as anyone that understands
> the x86 language can clearly see.
> 


False, as the side-by-side trace show exactly that and as you have 
admitted on the record *multiple times*:



On 5/6/2025 5:17 PM, dbush wrote:
 > On 5/6/2025 5:03 PM, olcott wrote:
 >> On 5/6/2025 3:51 PM, dbush wrote:
 >>> On 5/6/2025 4:46 PM, olcott wrote:
 >>>> On 5/6/2025 3:31 PM, dbush wrote:
 >>>>> Then what is the first instruction emulated by HHH that differs
 >>>>> from the emulation performed by UTM?
 >>>>>
 >>>>
 >>>> HHH1 is exactly the same as HHH except that DD
 >>>> does not call HHH1. This IS the UTM emulator.
 >>>> It does not abort.
 >>>
 >>> Last chance:
 >>>
 >>> What is the first instruction emulated by HHH that differs from the
 >>> emulation performed by HHH1?
 >>
 >> Go back and read the part you ignored moron.
 >
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========