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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Simulation vs. Execution in the Halting Problem
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2025 10:29:05 +0200
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Op 05.jun.2025 om 17:50 schreef olcott:
> On 6/5/2025 2:14 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>> Op 04.jun.2025 om 18:31 schreef olcott:
>>> On 6/4/2025 4:13 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 03.jun.2025 om 21:53 schreef olcott:
>>>>> On 6/3/2025 7:45 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/2/2025 10:58 PM, Mike Terry wrote:
>>>>>>> Even if presented with /direct observations/ contradicting his 
>>>>>>> position, PO can (will) just invent new magical thinking that 
>>>>>>> only he is smart enough to understand, in order to somehow 
>>>>>>> justify his busted intuitions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My favorite is that the directly executed D(D) doesn't halt even 
>>>>>> though it looks like it does:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/24/24 19:18, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>  > The directly executed D(D) reaches a final state and exits 
>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>>  > BECAUSE ANOTHER ASPECT OF THE SAME COMPUTATION HAS BEEN ABORTED,
>>>>>>  > Thus meeting the correct non-halting criteria if any step of
>>>>>>  > a computation must be aborted to prevent its infinite execution
>>>>>>  > then this computation DOES NOT HALT (even if it looks like it 
>>>>>> does).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the second call of otherwise infinite recursion had
>>>>> to be aborted to prevent actual infinite recursion then
>>>>> this call always was non-halting even when it was forced
>>>>> to stop running.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But since there is no infinite recursion, no abort is needed. 
>>>
>>> *You just contradicted yourself*
>>>
>>> void DDD()
>>> {
>>>    HHH(DDD);
>>>    return;
>>> }
>>>
>>> HHH simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
>>> that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
>>> that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)
>>> that simulates DDD that calls HHH(DDD)...
>>>
>> There we see that HHH aborts after a finite recursion.
> 
> HHH is supposed to abort as soon as it detects that
> the simulated input cannot possibly reach its own
> simulated "return" instruction final state.
> 
But HHH does not *detect* that. The abort is based on an *invalid 
assumption*, not on what HHH sees. HHH sees only the first few recursive 
recursions of a finite recursion and misses the fact that the next cycle 
if the simulated HHH will abort and halt.
You are dreaming again of an invalid other HHH that does not abort and 
you use that dream as a basis for the decision to abort. But it 
incorrect to say that HHH detect something when it is not there.