Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: The execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shows the divergence
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2025 14:51:46 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 220
Message-ID: <10221o1$37hjl$3@dont-email.me>
References: <1021ii4$3327l$6@dont-email.me> <1021jls$32035$1@dont-email.me>
 <1021jr1$3327l$7@dont-email.me> <1021jvn$32035$2@dont-email.me>
 <1021k32$3327l$9@dont-email.me> <1021k8c$32035$3@dont-email.me>
 <1021kgp$34oo9$1@dont-email.me> <1021klt$34pgj$1@dont-email.me>
 <1021kst$34oo9$2@dont-email.me> <1021l77$34pgj$2@dont-email.me>
 <1021m3r$34oo9$3@dont-email.me> <1021oh9$35mm5$1@dont-email.me>
 <1021ona$35nsp$1@dont-email.me> <1021ot3$35mm5$2@dont-email.me>
 <1021pcu$35nsp$2@dont-email.me> <1021prr$35mm5$3@dont-email.me>
 <1021rpd$36co9$1@dont-email.me> <102208q$37hjl$1@dont-email.me>
 <10220qt$37mll$1@dont-email.me> <102218h$37hjl$2@dont-email.me>
 <10221jl$37t34$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2025 20:51:46 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8019fb51a88e18578f1c4ac331976de2";
	logging-data="3393141"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+HeY6nOZrjALfDcQUvPbYb"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ctb/lLIvUSsjPQaXh6wp5cWRLSY=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <10221jl$37t34$1@dont-email.me>

On 6/7/2025 2:49 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 6/7/2025 1:43 PM, dbush wrote:
>> On 6/7/2025 2:36 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2025 1:26 PM, dbush wrote:
>>>> On 6/7/2025 1:10 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:37 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 12:29 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:20 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 12:17 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:14 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:33 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:17 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:12 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:08 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:06 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:01 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:58 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 9:56 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:54 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 9:51 AM, dbush wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:32 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shows the divergence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD emulated by HHH from DDD emulated by HHH1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main()
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>    HHH1(DDD);
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shows that DDD emulated by HHH and DDD emulated by
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH1 diverges as soon as HHH begins emulating itself
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating DDD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From the execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shown below*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1              DDD emulated by HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] push ebp               [00002183] push ebp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002184] mov ebp,esp            [00002184] mov 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebp,esp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002186] push 00002183 ; DDD    [00002186] push 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00002183 ; DDD
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000218b] call 000015c3 ; HHH    [0000218b] call 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 000015c3 ; HHH
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HHH1 emulates DDD once then HHH emulates DDD once, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these match*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that HHH emulates is at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine address of 00002183.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that HHH1 emulates is at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine address of 00002190.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> False.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that both HHH and HHH1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates is at the machine address of 000015c3, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you're not operating on algorithms.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are not actually paying any attention.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm very much paying to attention to the fact that you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stated that the code of the function H is not part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the input and that you're therefore not working on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You say that I said things that I never said.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You said that the instruction at address 000015c3 is not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the input, which means the input to HHH is not an 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> algorithm, and therefore has nothing to do with the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You really should be honest about not working on the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So you're saying that the input to HHH is a description/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>> specification of algorithm DDD consisting of the fixed code 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the function DDD, the fixed code of the function HHH, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the fixed code of everything that HHH calls down to the OS 
>>>>>>>>>>>> level, and that HHH must therefore report on the behavior of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the algorithm described/ specified by its input?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The directly executed DDD() would never stop running
>>>>>>>>>>> unless HHH(DDD) aborts the simulation of its input.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The directly executed HHH(DDD) would never stop running
>>>>>>>>>>> unless HHH(DDD) aborts the simulation of its input.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thus conclusively proving that the input to HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is not an algorithm, as you have admitted above, and therefore 
>>>>>>>>>> has nothing to do with the halting problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> People might actually take you seriously if you stopped lying 
>>>>>>>>>> about that.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its
>>>>>>>>>      input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D
>>>>>>>>>      would never stop running unless aborted then
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D
>>>>>>>>>      specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations.
>>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 
>>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Irrelevent, as you're not working on the halting problem by your 
>>>>>>>> own admission:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have correctly refuted the conventional proofs of
>>>>>>> the Halting Problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No you haven't, as you're not actually working on the halting 
>>>>>> problem as you've admitted:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This *is* the architecture of the algorithm.
>>>>>
>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022>
>>>>>      If simulating halt decider H
>>>>
>>>> And since you don't have a halt decider, as halt deciders work with 
>>>> algorithms which your HHH doesn't, you're not working on the halting 
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> If you would just be honest about that you might actually be taken 
>>>> seriously.
>>>
>>> If you would quit being dishonest we could get to closure.
>>>
>>
>> Closure would be you admitting that you're not working on the halting 
>> problem.
>>
> 
> Are you going to admit that you lied about the
> fact that I have not specified my algorithm?
> 

I didn't say that you didn't specify an algorithm.  I said your HHH 
doesn't work with algorithms, as your yourself have admitted:


On 5/13/2025 9:54 PM, dbush wrote:
 > On 5/13/2025 9:48 PM, olcott wrote:
 >> On 5/13/2025 8:31 PM, dbush wrote:
 >>> On 5/13/2025 9:27 PM, olcott wrote:
 >>>> On 5/13/2025 8:07 PM, dbush wrote:
 >>>>> On 5/13/2025 5:30 PM, olcott wrote:
 >>>>>> On 5/13/2025 6:43 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
 >>>>>>> On 5/13/25 12:52 AM, olcott wrote:
 >>>>>>>> *simulated D would never stop running unless aborted*
 >>>>>>>> or they themselves could become non-terminating.
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========