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Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> Newsgroups: comp.theory Subject: Re: The execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shows the divergence Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2025 14:51:46 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 220 Message-ID: <10221o1$37hjl$3@dont-email.me> References: <1021ii4$3327l$6@dont-email.me> <1021jls$32035$1@dont-email.me> <1021jr1$3327l$7@dont-email.me> <1021jvn$32035$2@dont-email.me> <1021k32$3327l$9@dont-email.me> <1021k8c$32035$3@dont-email.me> <1021kgp$34oo9$1@dont-email.me> <1021klt$34pgj$1@dont-email.me> <1021kst$34oo9$2@dont-email.me> <1021l77$34pgj$2@dont-email.me> <1021m3r$34oo9$3@dont-email.me> <1021oh9$35mm5$1@dont-email.me> <1021ona$35nsp$1@dont-email.me> <1021ot3$35mm5$2@dont-email.me> <1021pcu$35nsp$2@dont-email.me> <1021prr$35mm5$3@dont-email.me> <1021rpd$36co9$1@dont-email.me> <102208q$37hjl$1@dont-email.me> <10220qt$37mll$1@dont-email.me> <102218h$37hjl$2@dont-email.me> <10221jl$37t34$1@dont-email.me> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Sat, 07 Jun 2025 20:51:46 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="8019fb51a88e18578f1c4ac331976de2"; logging-data="3393141"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+HeY6nOZrjALfDcQUvPbYb" User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Cancel-Lock: sha1:ctb/lLIvUSsjPQaXh6wp5cWRLSY= Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <10221jl$37t34$1@dont-email.me> On 6/7/2025 2:49 PM, olcott wrote: > On 6/7/2025 1:43 PM, dbush wrote: >> On 6/7/2025 2:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/7/2025 1:26 PM, dbush wrote: >>>> On 6/7/2025 1:10 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:37 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>> On 6/7/2025 12:29 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:20 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 12:17 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:14 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:33 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:17 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:12 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:08 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 11:06 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:01 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:58 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 9:56 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:54 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 9:51 AM, dbush wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2025 10:32 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shows the divergence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of DDD emulated by HHH from DDD emulated by HHH1. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> int main() >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> { >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH1(DDD); >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shows that DDD emulated by HHH and DDD emulated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HHH1 diverges as soon as HHH begins emulating itself >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulating DDD. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *From the execution trace of HHH1(DDD) shown below* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH1 DDD emulated by HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002183] push ebp [00002183] push ebp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002184] mov ebp,esp [00002184] mov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ebp,esp >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [00002186] push 00002183 ; DDD [00002186] push >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 00002183 ; DDD >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [0000218b] call 000015c3 ; HHH [0000218b] call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 000015c3 ; HHH >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *HHH1 emulates DDD once then HHH emulates DDD once, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these match* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that HHH emulates is at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine address of 00002183. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that HHH1 emulates is at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine address of 00002190. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> False. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The next instruction of DDD that both HHH and HHH1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emulates is at the machine address of 000015c3, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *That is not an instruction of DDD* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words, you're not operating on algorithms. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In other words you are not actually paying any attention. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm very much paying to attention to the fact that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stated that the code of the function H is not part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the input and that you're therefore not working on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You say that I said things that I never said. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You said that the instruction at address 000015c3 is not >>>>>>>>>>>>>> part of the input, which means the input to HHH is not an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> algorithm, and therefore has nothing to do with the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You really should be honest about not working on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> halting problem. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So you're saying that the input to HHH is a description/ >>>>>>>>>>>> specification of algorithm DDD consisting of the fixed code >>>>>>>>>>>> of the function DDD, the fixed code of the function HHH, and >>>>>>>>>>>> the fixed code of everything that HHH calls down to the OS >>>>>>>>>>>> level, and that HHH must therefore report on the behavior of >>>>>>>>>>>> the algorithm described/ specified by its input? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The directly executed DDD() would never stop running >>>>>>>>>>> unless HHH(DDD) aborts the simulation of its input. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The directly executed HHH(DDD) would never stop running >>>>>>>>>>> unless HHH(DDD) aborts the simulation of its input. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thus conclusively proving that the input to HHH(DDD) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is not an algorithm, as you have admitted above, and therefore >>>>>>>>>> has nothing to do with the halting problem. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> People might actually take you seriously if you stopped lying >>>>>>>>>> about that. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words >>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>>>> If simulating halt decider H correctly simulates its >>>>>>>>> input D until H correctly determines that its simulated D >>>>>>>>> would never stop running unless aborted then >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> H can abort its simulation of D and correctly report that D >>>>>>>>> specifies a non-halting sequence of configurations. >>>>>>>>> </MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words >>>>>>>>> 10/13/2022> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Irrelevent, as you're not working on the halting problem by your >>>>>>>> own admission: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have correctly refuted the conventional proofs of >>>>>>> the Halting Problem >>>>>> >>>>>> No you haven't, as you're not actually working on the halting >>>>>> problem as you've admitted: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This *is* the architecture of the algorithm. >>>>> >>>>> <MIT Professor Sipser agreed to ONLY these verbatim words 10/13/2022> >>>>> If simulating halt decider H >>>> >>>> And since you don't have a halt decider, as halt deciders work with >>>> algorithms which your HHH doesn't, you're not working on the halting >>>> problem. >>>> >>>> If you would just be honest about that you might actually be taken >>>> seriously. >>> >>> If you would quit being dishonest we could get to closure. >>> >> >> Closure would be you admitting that you're not working on the halting >> problem. >> > > Are you going to admit that you lied about the > fact that I have not specified my algorithm? > I didn't say that you didn't specify an algorithm. I said your HHH doesn't work with algorithms, as your yourself have admitted: On 5/13/2025 9:54 PM, dbush wrote: > On 5/13/2025 9:48 PM, olcott wrote: >> On 5/13/2025 8:31 PM, dbush wrote: >>> On 5/13/2025 9:27 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 5/13/2025 8:07 PM, dbush wrote: >>>>> On 5/13/2025 5:30 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 5/13/2025 6:43 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 5/13/25 12:52 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> *simulated D would never stop running unless aborted* >>>>>>>> or they themselves could become non-terminating. ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========