Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 10:39:20 +0200
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On 6/9/25 21:14, Don Y wrote:
> On 6/9/2025 7:11 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 03:11:53 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/8/2025 4:15 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout, Bjorn Lomborg, Wall Street
>>>> Journal, 3 June 2025 issue, page A13.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a gift link.  No paywall, but they will insist on trying to
>>>> persuade you to subscribe.
>>>>
>>>> .<https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-physics-behind-the-spanish-blackout-solar-and-wind-power-unstable-grid-8be54b2a?st=VUVUMR&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink>
>>>
>>> It's amazing that we've never had such widespread outages BEFORE 
>>> renewables
>>> came along!
>>>
>>> Oh... wait.  No.
>>>
>>> Wanna wager as to the author's opinions on gun rights, transgender 
>>> issues,
>>> religion, etc?  Glad to know it was an "opinion" piece and one not based
>>> in fact...
>>
>> That's a pretty big jump.  I don't recall seeing any such thing, but
>> feel free to do some googling.
> 
> I saw HIS "jump" as even bigger!  Why have we had SO MANY similarly sized
> events in the past -- before ANY renewables were deployed?
> 
>      "Damn nukes and coal burners!"
> 
> Why were the hydro and nuclear plants IN THE AFFECTED SPANISH REGION so
> poor at providing that "inertia" (even if only to allow THAT part of the
> country to safely "island"?)  Why were they among the last sources to come
> back online?
> 
> The failure in the deployment of renewables is the ASSUMPTION that they
> can just "bolt onto" a stable grid.  Even as their incorporation into
> that grid alters its complexion.
> 
> One can argue that spinning masses have to be protected (which is why they
> disconnect) whereas a grid sourced completely by renewables (and BESS)
> can adapt to whatever the instantaneous characteristics of the network
> happen to be.
> 
> What's magical about 48Hz?  Why not 47?  53?  Again, LARGE mechanical loads
> will be the ones to suffer most but what portion of the system *load* is
> thusly vulnerable?
> 

On your last point, I think it goes like this: The power output of
large generating plants is servoed to the frequency. If the allowed
tolerance on the frequency is larger, the plant must operate with
larger power margins, and thus will run farther from its optimum
power setting. That costs money. I think these limits are the result
of acrimonious negotiations.

Jeroen Belleman