Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 02:29:47 +1000
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On 11/06/2025 12:55 am, john larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 16:02:19 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 09 Jun 2025 09:49:24 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 11:34:08 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/9/2025 10:14 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 17:16:09 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 08 Jun 2025 19:15:57 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout, Bjorn Lomborg, Wall Street
>>>>>>> Journal, 3 June 2025 issue, page A13.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is a gift link.  No paywall, but they will insist on trying to
>>>>>>> persuade you to subscribe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .<https://www.wsj.com/opinion/the-physics-behind-the-spanish-blackout-solar-and-wind-power-unstable-grid-8be54b2a?st=VUVUMR&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's net zero is the line voltage. The issue is partly spinning
>>>>>> mass, but more important is gross gigawatts available on bad
>>>>>> afternoons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another time bomb is that (cheap) solar panels and inverters and
>>>>>> batteries don't last as long as is assumed in payback calculations. In
>>>>>> 10 or 15 years there will be an enormous disposal problem. And lots of
>>>>>> leaky roofs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep.  And given the likely end of the mandates and subsidies,
>>>>> replacement may prove expensive, making the business case less
>>>>> attractive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> I remember not too long ago when the climate-change deniers were
>>>> claiming renewables could never be a significant part of a country's
>>>> energy profile but I guess when they find out Spain was running 73% one
>>>> afternoon they have to change their argument, lol.
>>>>
>>>> Just goalpost-shifting forever.
>>>>
>>>> Better question is will the fission nuclear industry ever give up trying
>>>> to push their obsolete pointless technology that has been nothing but
>>>> broken promises for 75 years. It's over give up, already.
>>>
>>> France will happily sell power to Germany and Spain for maybe 50 cents
>>> per KWH, or whatever that is in euros.
>>
>> Heh.
>>
>> I should add that the WSJ is focused on purely financial issues,
>> specifically where to invest, covering both equities (which stocks to
>> buy, which to sell) and municipal bonds (loans made to governments to
>> purchase such thing as bridges, roads, and power plants or
>> facilities).
>>
>> The Financial world does not care about technical details per se, they
>> care that the loans will be repaid.  Muni Bond Analysts consider the
>> engineering as a way to assess the likely scale and practicality.
>> Whereupon they encounter the big calculator issue - is the entity
>> large enough to be plausible to accomplish what they claim?
>>
>> I learned about the financial world by marrying into it - my wife was
>> a Muni bond portfolio manager.  I read some of her tutorials, and was
>> stunned to learn that while the stock market got all the news media
>> attention, the Muni market was in fact ten times larger.
>>
>> Joe
> 
> Some people enjoy working with money. There are even people who like
> being accountants. Electronics is much more fun to me.

Think how much more fun you could have if you actually understood what 
you were doing.

-- 
Bil Sloman, Sydney