Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: What the Constitution, Supreme Court say about 'due process' for
 Trump deportees:
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 08:19:26 -0500
Organization: Yellow Jersey, Ltd.
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On 6/11/2025 4:27 AM, zen cycle wrote:
> On 6/10/2025 10:54 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/10/2025 7:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/10/2025 2:01 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 6/10/2025 12:41 PM, Zen Cycle wrote:
>>>>> On 6/10/2025 12:59 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/10/2025 11:35 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/10/2025 5:59 AM, John B. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 10 Jun 2025 05:09:37 -0400, zen cycle
>>>>>>>> <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/9/2025 11:56 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One has to wonder why the Democrats are so 
>>>>>>>>>>> opposed to efforts to
>>>>>>>>>>> ensure that the only votes cast are from people 
>>>>>>>>>>> who are qualified to
>>>>>>>>>>> vote ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They aren't, dumbass. They're against the false 
>>>>>>>>> trope that there was
>>>>>>>>> widespread fraud. They're against the the lies that 
>>>>>>>>> large numbers of
>>>>>>>>> unqualified individuals cast votes. They're against 
>>>>>>>>> the demonization and
>>>>>>>>> assaults on the character of people who honestly 
>>>>>>>>> worked their polling
>>>>>>>>> places with integrity and certified election 
>>>>>>>>> results to a result that
>>>>>>>>> the magatards didn't like.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Elections in the the US are free and fair, with 
>>>>>>>>> minimal cases of fraud.
>>>>>>>>> The vast majority of ineligible votes cast are the 
>>>>>>>>> result of
>>>>>>>>> administrative errors and mistakes. The remainder 
>>>>>>>>> are so small as to
>>>>>>>>> constitute an insignificant blip in the statistical 
>>>>>>>>> noise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When you want to enact legislation based on lies, 
>>>>>>>>> you're doing it wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Re elections, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Years ago when I lived in the U.S. I believe that 
>>>>>>>> there was a limit on
>>>>>>>> the amount of money that an organization or 
>>>>>>>> individual could give to
>>>>>>>> support a political party running in an election
>>>>>>>> Seemed logical... rich folks couldn't dominate the 
>>>>>>>> party.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Now I read that the president's ex buddy was the 
>>>>>>>> largest contributor -
>>>>>>>> millions of dollars.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My memory is fealty? Or they changed the rules?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Effectively, they changed the rules. The Supreme 
>>>>>>> Court decided money is speech. See https:// 
>>>>>>> publicintegrity.org/ politics/the- citizens- united- 
>>>>>>> decision-and-why-it- matters/? 
>>>>>>> gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=10586056683
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Under which unions and the like are treated exactly 
>>>>>> the same as other groups of associated individuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> um...no.
>>>>> Citizens united allowed corporations to contribute 
>>>>> essentially in the same manner that labor unions do. CU 
>>>>> didn't affect individual contributions (afair). REcall 
>>>>> the famous Romney line after the decision (paraphrased 
>>>>> for political expedience) 'corporations are people 
>>>>> too'. That isn't really what he said but it's more 
>>>>> accurate than 'I can see russia from my house'.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In context Mr Romney was correct.  Fictitious persons 
>>>> share many obligations, rights and liabilities with 
>>>> humans; They pay taxes, can be sued civilly and 
>>>> criminally, they can contract, own and dispose of 
>>>> property, etc. There are differences; fictitious persons 
>>>> cannot vote.
>>>
>>> "Fictitious persons" AKA corporations cannot be 
>>> physically punished nor executed. They cannot be drafted 
>>> and sent to war. They cannot (practically) be deported, 
>>> although many "self deport" to operate from locations 
>>> that will allow them to evade taxes and make even more 
>>> money. They have no loyalty to the nation they were 
>>> "born" in, they often have no concern for their community 
>>> nor for the _real_ persons who live there.
>>>
>>> They exert excessive influence over American politics and 
>>> over the world at large, to the detriment of countless 
>>> _real_ persons.  It's ludicrous that they are given the 
>>> "rights" that they enjoy.
>>>
>>> But then, they've been able to buy very important judges.
>>>
>>> Weirdly, they seem to now enjoy approval even from some 
>>> "individualistic" MAGA maniacs.
>>>
>>>
>> I have formed, sold, dissolved, bought, reorganized 
>> several corporations. I suspect that you do not have a 
>> good grasp of this area; of corporate law or regulation or 
>> governance.
>>
> 
> How many of those 'corporations' had to register for the draft?


Yes there are differences.

Corporations, are fictitious persons (such as NEA/ACT, SEIU, 
AMA, the Boy Scouts and Chase Bank, law firms and real 
estate LLCs, etc) are not citizens and such cannot be 
executed, cannot vote etc. But the officers and/or directors 
can be jailed, the entity can be fined (and to some extent 
the officers as well).

But back to the above, all those entities enjoy freedom of 
assembly and speech in the collected form of their 
constituent individuals. Oh, and they are taxed, above and 
beyond the individual liability of the members, officers and 
directors.

-- 
Andrew Muzi
am@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971