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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 07:31:23 -0700
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On 6/11/2025 3:12 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> We use about 4T of refrigeration in a typical house, here.  About
>> 3 of that is for a single continuous space (family room, kitchen, dining,
>> living room, halls, etc.  The balance feeds the bedrooms.
>>
>> [Many larger homes will have TWO complete HVAC systems]
>>
>> Even the tiniest of mini-splits would be overkill for the smaller bedrooms.
>> And, the largest would need "assist" to ensure the conditioned air would be
>> well distributed across that ~1500 sq ft "single space"
> 
> I think mine is a nominal 1Kw, maybe 1.2, maybe 800 (I don't remember, fine 
> print on the split impossible to read, too far). It is inverter type, so most 
> of the time it is doing 300W.

4T is ~14KW.  Not counting the power used by the blower (which is probably
the better part of a KW).

> And yes, sure, I use a fan by the door to direct cool air at my bedroom across 
> the aisle. I should place another split in the bedroom, but I intend to move to 
> another house. And the external wall is a pain to drill.

Central HVAC installations, here, typically have the house built with
a buried pipe chase (most often a 4" dia PVC pipe) under the house.
This allows the liquid and suction lines to be routed to/from the
external compressor/condenser to the evaporator mounted atop the
forced air furnace inside the residence.

Power is routed separately (a length of #6/3 SE cable, here, fused at 50A).

>>> I could have a better system by having a multiple-split system. One outside 
>>> unit connected to two or three units inside.
>>>
>>> They are simple to install in existing houses that have no ducting, and 
>>> maybe, no winter heating either.
>>
>> Yes, but they are visible.  Homes here were designed with HVAC "out of
>> sight, out of mind".  It would be a cultural adjustment to tolerate what
>> is effectively a "radiator" (unradiator?) in several places throughout
>> the home.
>>
>> I've tried imagining how I could "hide" them in walls, soffits, etc.
>> but the house just wasn't built with that sort of use in mind.
> 
> Well, most houses in Spain predate that design. AC is a new fashion, and winter 
> heating is done typically distributing hot water over room radiators, or 
> electric radiators, or even gas stoves. There are no air ducts, that's a 
> retrofit except on new houses.

Growing up, hot water "baseboard" heat was common.  Older homes used steam in
larger radiators often covered to make them less of an eyesore.

> So a split placed near the ceiling is not a major eyesore. The external unit 
> hanging on the outside of the building, on buildings 15 floors tall, each flat 
> doing it differently, that's is an eyesore, but the owner doesn't see it :-p

Here, there are no signs of the HVAC system in a living space save for an
exhaust (supply) grill in the wall -- sometimes ceiling.  Placing a 3 ft
wide, 1 ft tall and deep "white box" on a wall would be very noticeable.
Tolerable in a garage space but not a living space.  Much depends on what
you (and other potential homeowners) are accustomed to.  E.g., I would now
consider baseboard heating to be an inconvenience -- both visually and
a hindrance to where furniture can be placed within the home.  Likewise
"window air conditioner units".  And, old "steam radiators" would make me
think I was living in the 1950's!