Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2025 18:04:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 38
Message-ID: <102ftg0$30obc$3@dont-email.me>
References: <m66c4kdc428f5va3f1lf1hok2d8r7n8027@4ax.com>
 <1026c1c$fci3$1@dont-email.me> <cnqd4khvpf8bc1m581lt2kquavofaqj6br@4ax.com>
 <1027bpv$mvq1$1@dont-email.me> <kapjhlx4on.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <1027e64$nfnr$2@dont-email.me> <krrjhlxbmu.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <1rdokas.pew8b1jlata8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <rq9khlxps6.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <1028rpt$14rjn$3@dont-email.me>
 <ti9lhlxhbv.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <1rdplb0.k2p5xu1t16jy8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <o0olhlxgn8.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <102cuma$1umr0$1@paganini.bofh.team>
 <1rdt563.34jdntp3ft22N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <102e30t$2ish9$1@dont-email.me>
 <1rdt9mh.yzcwth1j2rwhuN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
 <102fpt8$305sp$1@dont-email.me>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 03:05:04 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="953131ae706569211cf091e2d006646b";
	logging-data="3170668"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX181HFNS1IWb4Ahhtr+MWzqE"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
Cancel-Lock: sha1:FP7+Ir81S4o0C1oeCKLprMofOu4=
Content-Language: en-US
In-Reply-To: <102fpt8$305sp$1@dont-email.me>

On 6/12/2025 5:03 PM, KevinJ93 wrote:
> On 6/12/25 2:48 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/12/2025 1:08 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
>>>> Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>> Instantly dropping loads may be possible, but if it is the
>>>>> only short term balancing mechanizm, then effect on loads may
>>>>> be nasty.
>>>>
>>>> That option will become less effective as a greater proportion of the
>>>> supply is generated by renewables.  Dropping the load may also drop a
>>>> significant proportion of the supply from local solar and wind sources.
>>>
>>> That's specious reasoning.
>>>
>>> I can contract with the utility to allow some of my BIG loads to be
>>> dropped (on THEIR command) without disconnecting me (and my cogeneration
>>> capabilities) from the network.
>>
>> The key word here is "instantly".  To instantly drop thousands of
>> individual loads whilst maintaining their co-sited generation capacity,
>> in a completely reliable way, may be possible, but we are nowhere near
>> that at present.  Emergency load-shedding consists of switching of big
>> chunks of consumers but that is increasingly liable to switch off
>> generating capacity in an unpredictable way.
> 
> There are various programs being tried here where get lower residential rates 
> by allowing them to turn off your air-conditioning remotely. There are limits 
> for how long and how much etc.

Our refrigerator is capable of adjusting and/or deferring energy intensive
tasks based on DAL/TALR signals provided by the utility.  But, the refrigerator
has the final say, not the utility.  (and, the savings are small though could
be significant as EVERYONE has a refrigerator).