Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2025 11:16:25 -0700
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On 6/13/2025 6:02 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
> 
> 
>> We have 6.5 useful solar hours.  Likely something like 10-4.  Peak usage
>> (for the utility) extends to 7P.  I.e., refrigeration is in high demand
>> for the entire "peak rate period" (my numbers trying to demonstrate that
>> 7PM isn't anywhere near the point where you could consider NOT using
>> refrigeration -- so 3-7 most definitely would also have a heavy cooling
>> demand)
> 
> Is there any way you could 'store cold' rather than electricity?  Use a
> solar-powered heat pump during the hours of sunshine to cool a large
> tank of water, then reverse the the pump , which could be powered by a
> relatively small battery and inverter, to run water-cooled air
> conditioning during darkness.  (A DC powered electric motor on the heat
> pump might be even more efficient - just remember to replace the brushes
> regularly.)
> 
> That way you could take your biggest load off-grid entirely.

I've seen businesses that "make ice" during the off-hours to
lessen their refrigeration load during the peak hours.

But, it is a large investment.

The "cheap" way to cool is to use evaporative cooling.  But,
it really isn't much cheaper as you need to run the blower
continuously -- to push the humidified air OUT of the building
(failing to do so leaves you in a sticky soup!) -- as well as the
increased water consumption (we can always get more electricity;
but water is a scarce resource)

Getting rid of the heat -- in a useful way (besides just hoping it
dumps into the air) -- could be a help.  I've seen heat-exchangers
(placed with the compressor/condenser) that transfer the heat to
a nearby swimming pool.  But, once you have a few thousand gallons
of HOT pool water, *then* what?

[Swimming in 110F water is an interesting experience.]

The smarter move would be to demolish the house and build one that
is inherently more energy efficient.  E.g., move a fair bit of
the living space below grade (soil temperature is ~70F year round).
Install a ground-sourced heat pump, etc.