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From: Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.prolog
Subject: Time Sharing: Martin Richards, Ken Thompson and Linus Torvalds
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2025 14:38:43 +0200
Message-ID: <10310cj$10jlf$1@solani.org>
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In-Reply-To: <1030vm8$10j9c$1@solani.org>

Hi,

Threads are just a variant of processes that
share a heap, which can be the bottleneck. Processes
are good for time sharing systems. Some history:

How it started, support small CPUs:

TRIPOS (TRIvial Portable Operating System)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRIPOS

How it is going, more small CPUs excitement:

The Origins of Linux—Linus Torvalds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVTWCPoUt8w

But what about GUI programming, or even web
servers database access? Threads have massively
fallen back with other models mainly through

JavaScript, in the GUI via the browser and
on the server via node.js. So don't be fooled
by multi-threading Prolog systems,

could be a complete nonsense...

Mild Shock schrieb:
> 
> I wasted a half dozen months with simulated
> “threads” by using CheerpJ. This was a very
> interesting experience, I could run formerly
> Jekejeke Prolog written in Java inside JavaScript.
> 
> Main problem a simulation of “threads” cannot
> use certain GUI programming patterns from
> JavaScript. Because then you have still pre-emptive
> yield, like if you do it with auto-yield.
> 
> But in JavaScript you have critical regions
> for free, just between two awaits, there will
> be no yield. Such properties might impact how
> you model your “concurrent” logic.
> 
> This puts some weight on having a shield/1
> primitive. The CheerpJ threads were not that
> bad, I added auto yield, but shield/1 is a
> later invention from Dogelog Player.
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> When did the quantum leap happen in Dogelog Player?
>> Well very early on: The first binary release was here:
>>
>> ANN: Dogelog Player 0.9.7
>> The new version 0.9.7 of the Dogelog
>> player now masters DCG.
>> Admin User, created 09/06/2025
>>
>> And '$YIELD'/1 stuff came 9 months (sic!) later:
>>
>> ANN: Dogelog Player 0.9.8
>> The Dogelog Player supports a new interpreter
>> that can relinquish control.
>> Admin User, created 21/03/2022
>>
>> See for your self:
>>
>> https://www.xlog.ch/izytab/doclet/home/12_news/package.html
>>
>> 9 months, like Homo sapiens gestation period. (*)
>>
>> LoL
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> (*) To be frank, it was the perfect pass time during
>> the COVID-19 pandemic.
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Somebody wrote:
>>>
>>>  > Right, but what I’m saying is that with the
>>>  > current implementation as a separate process,
>>>  > running independently of the editor and only
>>>  > communicating over the channel defined by the
>>>  > protocol, the ability to have fine-grained
>>>  > asynchronous communication is limited.
>>>
>>> Not my problem not seeking the state of the art. You
>>> need of course a Prolog system that is all flesh
>>> and blood cooperative multitasking. If you want
>>>
>>> to do a GUI in Prolog similar like JavaScript
>>> does it now, or a native GUI adapter. And I don't
>>> count Tau-Prolog, although they showed amazing
>>>
>>> stuff. But not amazing enough, still based
>>> on continuations, and not based on promises. Or then
>>> async/await. I am not sure what SWI WASM now delivers?
>>>
>>> SWI Tinker shows me errors talking about threads when
>>> I use the query background execution feature and if I
>>> abort. But people from cooperative multitasking tend
>>>
>>> to not use the terminology "thread", they prefer to
>>> talk about "tasks". Ciao Playground doesn't count either,
>>> since their channels to a background worker can even
>>>
>>> not process an interrupt correctly.
>>>
>>> Bye
>>>
>>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> The fukkers stole my name:
>>>>
>>>> Jan - Local AI Assistant
>>>> https://github.com/menloresearch/jan
>>>>
>>>> Bye
>>>>
>>>> P.S.: Meanwhile I am struggling with Quantum Paper
>>>> whille doing a dark/light CSS. Look my light olive turned dark
>>>> olive, that is somewhere near chocolate or is it dog shit?
>>>>
>>>> P.P.S.: Just figured out yesterday that some browser defaults
>>>> are more Motif/OSF than Material/Google, aka Quantum Paper.
>>
>