Article <10393li$ic0g$1@dont-email.me>

Warning: mysqli::__construct(): (HY000/1203): User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections in D:\Inetpub\vhosts\howardknight.net\al.howardknight.net\includes\artfuncs.php on line 21
Failed to connect to MySQL: (1203) User howardkn already has more than 'max_user_connections' active connections
Warning: mysqli::query(): Couldn't fetch mysqli in D:\Inetpub\vhosts\howardknight.net\al.howardknight.net\index.php on line 66
Article <10393li$ic0g$1@dont-email.me>
Deutsch English Français Italiano
<10393li$ic0g$1@dont-email.me>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article
Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!news.eyrie.org!beagle.ediacara.org!.POSTED.beagle.ediacara.org!not-for-mail
From: RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: talk.origins
Subject: Re: What is legitimate about the ID bait and switch scam at this
 time?
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2025 09:23:45 -0500
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 177
Sender: to%beagle.ediacara.org
Approved: moderator@beagle.ediacara.org
Message-ID: <10393li$ic0g$1@dont-email.me>
References: <102kqi6$edbo$1@dont-email.me> <102pjak$1ovdd$1@dont-email.me>
Reply-To: rokimoto557@gmail.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Info: beagle.ediacara.org; posting-host="beagle.ediacara.org:3.132.105.89";
	logging-data="91737"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@beagle.ediacara.org"
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird
To: talk-origins@moderators.isc.org
Cancel-Lock: sha1:DSqLmzU4Yn2LI9yALFcniNujKGU=
In-Reply-To: <102pjak$1ovdd$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-US
	DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,FORGED_GMAIL_RCVD,FREEMAIL_FORGED_REPLYTO,
	FREEMAIL_REPLYTO_END_DIGIT,HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS,
	NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED,
	RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED,RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED,
	RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,SPF_HELO_NONE,SPF_PASS,URIBL_BLOCKED,
	URIBL_DBL_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,URIBL_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS,
	USER_IN_WELCOMELIST,USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
	version=3.4.6
	smtp.eternal-september.org

On 6/16/2025 12:12 PM, RonO wrote:
> On 6/14/2025 4:45 PM, RonO wrote:
>> https://evolutionnews.org/2025/06/jonathan-wells-cleared-the-ground- 
>> for- intelligent-design/
>>
>> The intelligent design creationist scam likely was never a legitimate 
>> scientific effort from it's very beginnings after the creationist loss 
>> in Edwards v. Aguillard, 1987.  At that time they knew that nothing 
>> that they had measured up as science, but they could not give up on 
>> the science denial.  The ID perp's current Top Six god-of-the-gaps 
>> best evidence for the ID scam were all used by the scientific 
>> creationists before 1987, and the Supreme court told the IDiots that 
>> just because science currently did not have all the answers was not 
>> support for their creationist beliefs.  The Top Six killed ID on TO 
>> because most of the IDiots that were left realized that they had never 
>> wanted the ID perps to accomplish any valid ID science.  The god that 
>> fills the Top Six gaps in the order in which they must have occurred 
>> in this universe is not the god described in the Bible.  ID perp's 
>> like Nelson that were YEC knew that the ID science never existed or 
>> they would not have signed up to support the Wedge goals.  Any 
>> legitimate ID science would have just been more science to deny for 
>> IDiots like Nelson, and it turned out that most of the IDiots on TO 
>> were in the same boat and could not continue to support the ID scam 
>> once they had their faces rubbed in that sad fact.
>>
>> Denial seems to be all that the ID perps ever had, and the only thing 
>> that creationists like Tour and MarkE can continue with, but the 
>> denial is senseless, as MarkE had to accept, because the origin of 
>> life gap (#3 of the Top Six) is not Biblical.  Any god that fills that 
>> gap would not be the Biblcial god.  Creationists have to be like 
>> Denton and Behe and accept that the Bible pretty much tells you 
>> nothing about nature in terms of god-did-it Biblical claims.  Denton 
>> just claims that his god got the ball rolling with the Big Bang and 
>> the rest unfolded into what we have today.  Most (all?) of the other 
>> ID perps have never accepted Denton's deistic views.  Creationists 
>> have to start denying what is written in the Bible in order to keep 
>> using the stupid and senseless gap denial stupidity.  The AIG still 
>> uses the Big Bang (#1 of the Top Six) in their creation museum even 
>> though YEC Biblical literalists (like the AIG "scientists") know 
>> enough to try to remove the Big Bang from public school science 
>> standards along with biological evolution.  Several states have tried 
>> to do that, and Kansas succeeded back in 1999 until enough 
>> creationists were voted out and the standards could be restored to 
>> what they had been before.  The ID perps and scientific creationists 
>> before them can only use the Top Six as fire and forget denial 
>> arguments that the rubes need to forget about in order to be fed the 
>> next denial argument.
>>
>> The Reason to Believe old earth creationists used to claim that they 
>> were IDiots and supported the ID science until the ID perps were 
>> stupid enough to put out the Top Six as a related whole.  Now you 
>> would be hard pressed to find any evidence that the Reason to Believe 
>> creationists ever supported the ID scam.  They still supported the ID 
>> scam after Dover, and they just claimed that they had never wanted to 
>> teach the junk in the public schools.  They just wanted to use it to 
>> support their Biblical creation model, but it turned out that they 
>> could not do that.
>>
>> The ID perp article in the link above is admitting that the ID perps 
>> never had the ID science.  As stupid as it may seem they are claiming 
>> that all they basically have is science denial.
>>
>> QUOTE:
>> Before the positive case for intelligent design can be received 
>> effectively, the case against the Darwinian evolutionary mechanism 
>> must be clearly laid out. One man who was instrumental in this initial 
>> “ground clearing operation” was biologist Dr. Jonathan Wells, our 
>> friend and colleague who passed away in 2024 at the age of 82.
>> END QUOTE:
>>
>> Currently all that the creationist rubes get from the ID perps is the 
>> science denial.  Wells' creationist denial book, Icons of Evolution, 
>> is the only junk that has been used for the obfuscation and denial 
>> switch scam lesson plan that the creationist rubes get instead of any 
>> ID science.
>>
>> The positive case for intelligent design has never been made.  Top Six 
>> gap denial isn't a positive case for anything, and no attempt was made 
>> to test Behe's and Dembski's IDiotic junk.  Dembski claimed that he 
>> was going to publish a scientific test for ID decades ago, and when he 
>> published it, it was just the tornado through a junk yard probability 
>> stupidity, and he had to admit that it wasn't a valid test.  Behe and 
>> Minnich claimed that IC could be tested, but both admitted that they 
>> had not done any such testing, nor have they ever attempted any such 
>> testing since making the claim during the Dover fiasco.  It turns out 
>> that pretty much none of the IDiots ever wanted to validate any ID 
>> science because it would destroy the Big Tent Wedge religious 
>> movement.  Even Old earth creationists like Reason to Believe do not 
>> want any ID science validated with respect to the Top Six best 
>> evidences for the ID scam. Nelson would have never joined up to 
>> support the Wedge movement if Meyer had ever had any valid scientific 
>> evidence that some god had diddle farted with life forms within a 25 
>> million year period over half a billion years ago during the Cambrian 
>> explosion.
>>
>> The ID scam has never been a legitimate effort for ID perps like 
>> Nelson.   Science is just the study of nature, and there is only one 
>> nature that we have to study, and nature is not Biblical.  Really, 
>> most of the ID perps likely would not support the ID creationist scam 
>> if they had any valid ID science.  It would just be more science to 
>> deny for the type of Biblical creationists that they are.  Most of the 
>> IDiots left posting on TO in 2017 found that they could not support 
>> the best evidence for the ID scam because they tell any competent 
>> person that the ID "science" will never support their Biblical beliefs.
>>
>> Ron Okimoto
>>
> I should note that Jay Richards (the ID perp that made the stupid claims 
> about Wells in the linked to article above was program director for the 
> ID scam when the Wedge document got leaked.  This was around the time 
> that Wells was finishing up Icons of Evolution, just before it was 
> published.  Most of the ID perps went into denial about the Wedge 
> document, but Jay Richards fessed up and claimed that the Wedge was the 
> program that he was directing, and that you just had to look at the 
> mission statement of the ID scam unit in order to determine that, that 
> was true.  The mission statement was essentially repeated in the Wedge 
> document, and also claimed that they were trying to recreate a theocracy 
> that they believed had once existed in the US.  So the Wedge was the 
> mission that the ID perps had all signed up for, and was the program 
> that Richards was directing.
> 
> When Ohio claimed that they wanted to teach ID in their public schools 
> in 2001 there was a Colloquy discussion on ID and public education. 
> Several TO regulars participated.  DeWolf (head of legal for the ID scam 
> unit and coauthor of both the teach ID scam booklet and the Utah law 
> review article claiming that it was legal to teach ID in the public 
> schools) and Jay Richards (I don't know if Richards was still program 
> director at that time) participated, but neither one claimed that the 
> bait and switch was going to go down, just that ID was a legitimate 
> science topic to discuss in the public schools.  I don't think that they 
> responded to any feed back for their posts.  One thing that became 
> apparent during that Colloquy discussion was the fact that none of the 
> creationists IDiots knew what was going to be taught in the public 
> schools.  The best that some of them could come up with was the same old 
> creationist denial stupidity that had failed the scientific 
> creationists.  None of them seemed to understand irreducible complexity 
> nor specified complexity.  There seemed to be no ID science that they 
> expected to be taught.  This same misunderstanding of the ID scam was 
> apparent on TO at the time, so I started posting on the ARN board to see 
> what ID was supposed to be, and found out that it was just a bogus scam. 
>   It turned out that there wasn't any ID science worth teaching, and a 
> lot of the creationists understood this, but they still supported the 
> idea of the possibility of some type of ID creation science existing. It 
> turned out that the only creationists left supporting the ID scam after 
> the bait and switch started to go down were ignorant, incompetent, and 
> or dishonest.  Informed, competent and honest creationist IDiots did not 
> exist.
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========