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From: Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Re: 25 Classic Books That Have Been Banned
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2025 11:11:17 -0700
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On 6/24/25 09:30, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2025 16:21:32 -0700, The Horny Goat <lcraver@home.ca>
> wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, 26 May 2025 08:37:19 -0700, Paul S Person
>> <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> intended to show that none exist. The actual meaning is "something
>>> worth looking at". Or perhaps "something you don't see every day".
>>>
>>> 2. Science is very good (as far as we can tell) at describing a world
>>> (universe) /corrupted by sin/. It can say nothing about one that is
>>> not. It is, IOW, limited in a way it cannot even detect because
>>> nothing it studies is not corrupted. The situation in which the New
>>> Jerusalem descends is generally considered to taking place in a new
>>> world (universe), freed from sin.
>>>
>> In fairness, "something you don't see every day" includes things like
>> me picking my daughter up from the airport (which I'm actually doing
>> tomorrow) which to be fair isn't something people make life changing
>> steps in their life the way conversion to a faith they didn't
>> previously belong to.
>>
>> The Christian view of heaven is "The New Jerusalem where all suffering
>> and pain will be banished forever - to be inhabited only by the just
>> which is defined by those who have accepted the teachings of the
>> faith. Other faiths have other definitions.
>>
>> It certainly isn't anything remotely miraculous like parting the Red
>> Sea or resurrection from the dead.
>>
>> As for events like the Last Judgement that's pretty easy to bring
>> about >IF< you believe in an omnipotent creator who has an interest in
>> this world and completely absurd if you don't.
>>
>> "Something worth looking at" can involve fairly mundane but uncommon
>> things such as my daughter arriving home from seeing her sister in the
>> UK. Which while unusual (in terms of 'not happening every day') and is
>> something I am looking forward to doesn't come close to any
>> Christian's view of seeing heaven for the first time (or alternately
>> choose an analogous event in some other faith) which is expected to be
>> their happiest event ever.
>>
>> In other words I understand your point but your description is a
>> fairly powerful understatement.
> 
> /The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language/, published
> 1969, does have the intellectualized definition as "1.". But then it
> has:
> 
> 2. A person, thing, or event that excites admiring awe.
> 
> This, of course, is the definition I am referring to.
> 
> But 1969 is a long time ago. Perhaps this meaning has disappeared over
> time.
> 
> As to the New Jerusalem, it is Revelation's view of the matter. The
> second /Ice Age/ film showed a Saber-tooth Squirrel Heaven at the end
> which is a good representation of what most people I have encountered
> actually think Heaven to be, golden fence/gate, green grass, and all.
> Not to mention the One True Acorn, of which all lesser acorns are but
> images.
> 
> Note that CS Lewis goes for this sort of thing in /The Last Battle/,
> which knows nothing of a New Jerusalem. And where, indeed, would he
> put it? Earth or Narnia?

	No with the Diety of your choice "further in and deeper in" as was 
recounted
in one volume when the end of the Narnian world happens.

> 
> I do find it odd that various evil types should be mentioned as not
> allowed to enter -- not that they can't enter, but that they /exist/.
> Only a bit earlier, these were said to /all/ have gone into the Lake
> of Fire. So how is it they are still around? Surely after everything
> has been destroyed and renewed human beings will no longer have the
> knowledge of good and evil and so be restored to their original state
> as well. There appears to be some confusion here. Probably mine, to be
> sure.

	Perhaps Lewis;a diety of choice wants all to be eventually returned to
Grace as he understood it.  So they suffer in the "Lake of Fire" to be 
purified
so that like humans in Purgatory they can eventually enter into Heavenly 
bliss.

	Yes I read the Narnian books quite some time back along with the
extraterrestrial adventures of Ransom.

	In Christian Mythos as in Tolkienian adaptation the Evil One corrupts
but only the Diety of choice creates. Melkor was powerful but by no means
did he create Dragons, Orcs or Trolls which by the scheme of things are
creations of the one which he bent to his will. And despite his great power
he was forced back into the Void by the others whom Ainu had set to guard
his creation.  Sauron was far less powerful but managed to further corrrupt
men and orcs.

	I read this stuff when i was in my 20s and 30s, 50 years ago and had
purchased the whole Lord of the Rings set, the ones that broke the copyright
protections by being imported from the UK.

	bliss