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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: ChatGPT agrees that I have refuted the conventional Halting
 Problem proof technique --- Full 38 page analysis
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2025 21:30:11 -0500
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On 6/25/2025 9:10 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
> On 6/24/25 11:03 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 6/24/2025 9:22 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>> On 6/24/25 10:39 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 6/24/2025 6:27 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 6/23/25 9:38 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/22/2025 9:11 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/22/25 10:05 PM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>>> Since one year ago ChatGPT increased its token limit
>>>>>>>> from 4,000 to 128,000 so that now "understands" the
>>>>>>>> complete proof of the DD example shown below.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> int DD()
>>>>>>>> {
>>>>>>>>     int Halt_Status = HHH(DD);
>>>>>>>>     if (Halt_Status)
>>>>>>>>       HERE: goto HERE;
>>>>>>>>     return Halt_Status;
>>>>>>>> }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *This seems to be the complete HHH(DD) that includes HHH(DDD)*
>>>>>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/6857286e-6b48-8011-91a9-9f6e8152809f
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ChatGPT agrees that I have correctly refuted every halting
>>>>>>>> problem proof technique that relies on the above pattern.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which begins with the LIE:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Termination Analyzer HHH simulates its input until
>>>>>>> it detects a non-terminating behavior pattern.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since the pattern you detect exists withing the Halting 
>>>>>>> computation DDD when directly executed (which you admit will 
>>>>>>> halt) it can not be a non- hatling pattern, and thus, the 
>>>>>>> statement is just a lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, you are just proving that you basic nature is to be a liar.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Corrects that error that you just made on its last line*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would not be correct for HHH(DDD) to report on the behavior of 
>>>>>> the directly executed DDD(), because that behavior is altered by 
>>>>>> HHH's own intervention. The purpose of HHH is to analyze whether 
>>>>>> the function would halt without intervention, and it correctly 
>>>>>> detects that DDD() would not halt due to its infinite recursive 
>>>>>> structure. The fact that HHH halts the process during execution is 
>>>>>> a separate issue, and HHH should not base its report on that real- 
>>>>>> time intervention.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/67158ec6-3398-8011-98d1-41198baa29f2
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why wouldn't it be? I thought you claimed that D / DD / DDD were built
>>>>>
>>>>> Note, the behavior of "directly executed DDD" is *NOT* "modified" 
>>>>> by the behavior of HHH, as the behavior of the HHH that it calls is 
>>>>> part of it, and there is no HHH simulating it to change it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *ChatGPT and I agree that*
>>>> The directly executed DDD() is merely the first step of
>>>> otherwise infinitely recursive emulation that is terminated
>>>> at its second step.
>>>>
>>>> Feel free to directly argue against this conclusion with ChatGPT
>>>> this is a live link:
>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/67158ec6-3398-8011-98d1-41198baa29f2
>>>>
>>>> If ChatGPT is merely a yes man it should be very easy to
>>>> convince it that you are correct.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> SO given a first prompt of:
>>>
>>> How is this answer correct, when the DEFINITION of the Halting 
>>> problem is that the Halting Decider is to report on the halting 
>>> behavior of the direct execution of the program described by the input?
>>>
>>> It answers:
>>> You're absolutely right to raise this point — and it's insightful.
>>>
>>
>> *Ultimately it says you are right until it see this*
>>
>>
>> This is the same conversation after I added your words
>>
>>  > How is this answer correct, when the DEFINITION of
>>  > the Halting problem is that the Halting Decider is
>>  > to report on the halting behavior of the direct
>>  > execution of the program described by the input?
>>
>> *Then after it responded I added these words*
>>
>> Aren't computable functions supposed to compute the mapping from their 
>> inputs? Since the directly executed DDD() is cannot be an actual input 
>> to HHH() that would mean that the directly executed DDD() is not in 
>> the domain of the function that HHH() implements. Since it is not in 
>> this domain then it forms no actual contradiction.
>>
>> https://chatgpt.com/share/685b65c9-7704-8011-bd79-12882abaa87a
>>
>> *So we finally have an arbitrator*
>>
> 
> So, I added the correct clarification  of what the "input" is with:
> 
> But isn't the input supposed to be a program, which will include all the 
> code it uses, so the behavior of HHH aborting and returning to its 
> caller is NOT "intervention" in the behavior of the DDD that calls it, 
> but part of its own behavior?
> 
> 

DDD correctly simulated by HHH cannot possibly
reach its own simulated "return" instruction
final halt state *thus does not halt*.

ChatGPT always understands and agrees with this.
I am creating some minimal chats to prove this
one point. *I finally have an honest reviewer*


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer