Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:=20Causes=20of=20the=20Gran=20Apag=C3=B3n?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?=20(Spain),=2065=20corrective=20actions?=
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 16:13:01 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 125
Message-ID: <104ooqd$ukkh$1@dont-email.me>
References: <6rs8ilxccg.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <duu2klxrj1.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <bolt6k51arr6pqkim7klqohjanspao0j07@4ax.com>
 <e923klxr0c.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
 <ptBbQ.94874$YCgd.44749@fx44.iad>
 <vfpt6ktgvg5j4c37u1q1v3nm3ltu0eueke@4ax.com>
 <104o9l1$rfe6$1@dont-email.me>
 <55mv6kpbs0t7hdniojb1h442e335jk4obd@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2025 18:13:02 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="f7d8cc7b346fa395fa09dcb3c7fd986f";
	logging-data="1004177"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1+gLWE8mVOQmPCa4ZcHVIO2"
User-Agent: NewsTap/5.5 (iPhone/iPod Touch)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:byQeS5WFVSZJjqqOHEo1pbLz+UI=
	sha1:euyqphhUG0Ly0uHpPbu+7QZdNsA=

Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Jul 2025 11:54:09 -0000 (UTC), piglet
> <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 09 Jul 2025 21:49:09 GMT, Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 23:07:26 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2025-07-09 22:57, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 9 Jul 2025 22:10:21 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
>>>>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2025-06-17 21:38, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>>> <https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/17/expert-report-rules-
>>>> out-
>>>>>>>> cyber-attack-for-spain-and-portugal-april-blackout>
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     *Spanish minister rules out cyber-attack as cause of April
>>>>>>>> blackout, after expert report*
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>     System failure caused by network?s inability to control grid
>>>>>>>> voltage said to be behind outage in Spain and Portugal
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> <https://elperiodicodelaenergia.com/el-gobierno-aprueba-la-
>>>> instalacion-de-compensadores-sincronos-y-refuerza-la-interconexion-con-
>>>> francia/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Energy policy
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *The Government approves the installation of synchronous compensators
>>>>>>> and reinforces the interconnection with France*
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The 65 actions are aimed at incorporating additional tools into the
>>>>>>> networks to facilitate voltage control, stability in the event of
>>>>>>> oscillations and, in general, to reinforce the electricity system
>>>>>>> Redacción
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Editorial staff
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 07/08/2025
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The Council of Ministers, at the request of the Ministry for
>>>>>>> Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge (Miteco), has
>>>>>>> approved a list of specific actions to increase the resilience of the
>>>>>>> electricity grid,
>>>>>>> which will be incorporated as a new Specific Modification to the
>>>>>>> Development Plan for the Electricity Transmission Grid 2021-2026, the
>>>>>>> second, after the one implemented in 2024. The list includes 65
>>>>>>> actions aimed at incorporating additional tools into the grids to
>>>>>>> facilitate voltage control, stability in the event of fluctuations
>>>>>>> and, in general,
>>>>>>> the reinforcement of the electricity system, both on the Spanish
>>>>>>> mainland and in the Canary Islands and Balearic Islands.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The actions include the installation of synchronous compensators for
>>>>>>> the first time on the mainland, as well as the incorporation of new
>>>>>>> units on the islands. These devices provide dynamic voltage control
>>>>>>> and, given their local nature, are distributed geographically to
>>>>>>> reinforce it in the different areas, complementing the equipment and
>>>>>>> solutions that the system already has for this function.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ... You can read the rest on the link if desired.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I did.  Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What exactly do they mean by "Synchronous Compensators"?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't know, I'm not an electrical engineer. But one of the comments
>>>>> may explain a bit:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Frank
>>>>> 
>>>>> 07/08/2025 Synchronous compensators are reverse generators acting as
>>>>> motors connected to the grid. What follows is simulations to determine
>>>>> where on the grid they are most effective, power and costs because like
>>>>> all motors they take active power from the grid which is priced on an
>>>>> hourly basis. And the last thing is who will pay for the voltage control
>>>>> service and how the installed equipment will be accounted for.
>>>> 
>>>> Synchronous Compensators are also known as Rotary Capacitors, they are 
>>>> unloaded synchronous motors which, like synchronous generators, will 
>>>> deliver reactive power (same as a capacitor) when overexcited, and consume 
>>>> reactive power when underexcited (like an inductor).  They have been in 
>>>> common use since the early days of power distribution to produce reactive 
>>>> power near loads, to reduce the amount remote generation needs to send 
>>>> over transmission lines, with the attendant losses.  Regular capacitors 
>>>> are also used for this purpose, but the rotary type is continuously 
>>>> adjustable.
>>> 
>>> Yeah.  I read Frank's comment as well, and he may well be correct, but
>>> one cannot assume that politicians are being quite that precise.
>>> 
>>> In the mechanical world, it's quite common to have a large but
>>> unloaded three-phase induction motor running at or near synchronous
>>> speed, precisely to absorb surge loads, and it would also serve to
>>> absorb surge overvoltages ... if they are large enough.  The energy is
>>> stored in the rotational energy of the rotor.
>>> 
>>> Do we have any idea how big these Synchronous Compensators are, in
>>> kilograms?
>>> 
>>> The good news is that they are talking spinning reserve, like big
>>> turbines, not fancy electronics and batteries.
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>> 
>> 100 to 400 tons seem to be the figures quoted.
> 
> I didn't see that anywhere.  Where did you find it?
> 
> Joe
> 

Google, and this …

https://www.weg.net/institutional/NL/fr/news/produits-et-solutions/weg-manufactures-mega-synchronous-condensers

-- 
piglet