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From: "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic
Subject: Re: How do simulating termination analyzers work? ---Truth Maker
 Maximalism FULL_TRACE
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2025 12:50:32 +0200
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Op 17.jul.2025 om 16:11 schreef olcott:
> On 7/17/2025 8:57 AM, joes wrote:
>> Am Thu, 17 Jul 2025 08:47:16 -0500 schrieb olcott:
>>> On 7/17/2025 3:29 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>>> Op 16.jul.2025 om 19:49 schreef olcott:
>>
>>>> This is already evidence that simulation is not the right tool to
>>>> analyse the input.
>>> In other words you disagree that a simulation by a UTM is a correct
>>> measure of behavior. (A simulation by a UTM is defined to be a correct
>>> measure of behavior).
>> HHH is not a UTM.
>>
> 

As usual no rebuttal, but repeated irrelevant claims.

> _DDD()
> [00002192] 55             push ebp
> [00002193] 8bec           mov ebp,esp
> [00002195] 6892210000     push 00002192  // push DDD
> [0000219a] e833f4ffff     call 000015d2  // call HHH
> [0000219f] 83c404         add esp,+04
> [000021a2] 5d             pop ebp
> [000021a3] c3             ret
> Size in bytes:(0018) [000021a3]

You have been corrected many times that these 18 bytes cannot be the 
full input, because at 0000219a the call refers to 000015d2 that is 
outside this region.
The full input includes DDD and all function called by it, directly or 
indirectly, including the HHH that aborts and returns a value of 0.
When we use this fact, we see that a correct simulation would continue 
at 0000219f with this value and reach a final halt state at 000021a3.
Any simulation with different results does not follow the semantics of 
the x86 language. In particular, HHH fails to reach this final halt 
state by a premature abort. This is due to the bug that it does not 
count the conditional branch instructions when it simulates itself, so 
it misses the fact the there is only a finite recursion.

> 
> Each element of the infinite set of functions
> at machine address 000015d2 that emulates 0 to ∞
> instructions of the above machine code never
> reaches its emulated "ret" instruction final
> halt state BECAUSE DDD CALLS EACH EMULATOR IN
> RECURSIVE EMULATION.

Irrelevant, because for all aborting simulators, this is a finite 
recursion. HHH is in error, when it reports non-termination, when there 
is only a finite recursion.

> 
> *ChatGPT agrees and provides the reasoning why it agrees*
> https://chatgpt.com/share/6877f09c-7b18-8011-b075-ea3671e57886
> 
> 
We know how easy it is to get chat-boxes say falsehood, when they are 
fed with incorrect data.