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From: olcott <polcott333@gmail.com>
Newsgroups: comp.theory,sci.logic,comp.ai.philosophy
Subject: Re: Four Chatbots figure out on their own without prompting that
 HHH(DDD)==0
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2025 09:25:00 -0500
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On 7/21/2025 3:38 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
> Op 20.jul.2025 om 17:18 schreef olcott:
>> On 7/20/2025 2:57 AM, Fred. Zwarts wrote:
>>> Op 19.jul.2025 om 21:19 schreef olcott:
>>>> On 7/19/2025 12:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
>>>>> On 7/19/25 10:42 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/18/2025 3:49 AM, joes wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That is wrong. It is, as you say, very obvious that HHH cannot 
>>>>>>> simulate
>>>>>>> DDD past the call to HHH. You just draw the wrong conclusion from 
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> (Aside: what "seems" to you will convince no one. You can just call
>>>>>>> everybody dishonest. Also, they are not "your reviewers".)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For the purposes of this discussion this is the
>>>>>> 100% complete definition of HHH. It is the exact
>>>>>> same one that I give to all the chat bots.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Termination Analyzer HHH simulates its input until
>>>>>> it detects a non-terminating behavior pattern. When
>>>>>> HHH detects such a pattern it aborts its simulation
>>>>>> and returns 0.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the only HHH that meets your definition is the HHH that never 
>>>>> detects the pattern and aborts, and thus never returns.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All of the Chat bots conclude that HHH(DDD) is correct
>>>> to reject its input as non-halting because this input
>>>> specified recursive simulation. They figure this out
>>>> on their own without any prompting.
>>>>
>>>> https://chatgpt.com/share/687aa4c2-b814-8011-9e7d-b85c03b291eb
>>>>
>>>
>>> I just read a news item where an AI told that bread with shit is a 
>>> nice desert. So, we know what a proof by AI means.
>>
>> That would be a detectable error.
>>
>> There is no detectable error in the above link
>> pertaining to the correct return value of HHH(DDD).
>>
> 
> Errors have been detected in the input for the chat-box and pointed out 
> to you.
> E.g., that ' HHH simulates its input until it detects a non-terminating 
> behaviour pattern' contradicts 'When HHH detects such a pattern it 
> aborts its simulation and returns 0'. 

void Infinite_Recursion()
{
   Infinite_Recursion();
}

void Infinite_Loop()
{
   HERE: goto HERE;
   return;
}

<sarcasm>
Sure and we know that you are correct because the
correct simulation of Infinite_Recursion() and
Infinite_Loop() would eventually reach their "return"
statement and terminate normally if we just wait
long enough.
</sarcasm>

> When HHH aborts, the simulated HHH does as well, so the case that the 
> such a HHH would correctly detect non-termination does not exists.
> 
> When feeding a chatbox with contradicting input, it is no surprise to 
> see invalid conclusion.


-- 
Copyright 2025 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius
hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer