Date: Sat, 4 May 2024 04:33:10 -0500
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Subject: Re: the Republican anti-anti-Semitism on college campuses bill
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On 5/3/24 11:38 AM, BTR1701 wrote:
> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:37:44 -0000 (UTC)
>> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out if I support the legislation that passed the
>>> House yesterday defining anti-Semitism and requiring the Department of
>>> Education to use the definition to determine whether a university has
>>> failed to take action against anti-Semitism. Department of Education
>>> may be required to cut federal funding for universities found to be
>>> disriminating.
>>>
>>> Anti-Semitism is an expression of thought. The definition, which
>>> includes in its definition of anti-Semitism the criticism of Israel
>>> that tends to apply uniquely to Israel and no other nation on earth,
>>> is possibly a reasonable one.
>>>
>>> The incidents of speech can certainly be labeled as anti-Semitic,
>>> along with incidents in which threats, intimidation, vandalism, and
>>> violence have occurred.
>>>
>>> Is the legislation requiring universities to shut down protests or
>>> punish those participating in the protests if there is no finding that
>>> the speech also included threats and intimidation?
>>>
>>> Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Georgia) opposed the legislation on
>>> religious grounds. Do I look to her for leadership on religion or
>>> anything at all? She wrote that she would not vote for the law
>>> because it "could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing
>>> the gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified
>>> by the Jews." This has been used as justification for violence
>>> against Jews over the centuries.
>>>
>> I could really benefit from some facts here. My knowledge of the
>> details from either a Christian or Jewish perspective is extremely
>> limited here.
>>
>> I know that Jesus was crucified at Herod's behest. Herod was a King but
>> did he actually have the power to order the execution on his own
>> initiative or was he simply doing as the Roman emperor directed without
>> any realistic possibility of dissenting? And what was Herod's own
>> religion? Was he Jewish? Was he a popular leader among the Jews? (Yes,
>> I know that is a silly question given that very few people had much say
>> over who was going to be their king: it's not like he was elected! But
>> kings, however they can be get that job, can be anywhere on a spectrum
>> from widely loved to massively despised. I'm just curious where Herod
>> was among the people he ruled.) What were the sentiments of the Jewish
>> community about Jesus? I knew Jesus was Jewish but I don't know if most
>> Jews thought well of him or if they thought he was some kind of
>> harmless weirdo or dangerous heretic.
>>
>> Also, how did Jesus come to be in Herod's custody? What actual crime
>> did he commit? Who arrested him? Was his crime seen by agents of the
>> King (the equivalent to today's police) or was he turned in by an
>> informer? I know Judas is supposed to have a part in this - I remember
>> something about Judas getting 30 pieces of silver to denounce Jesus -
>> but again, I don't remember details. Did Judas actually slink into a
>> police station-equivalent and rat out Jesus? Or was he rounded up and
>> tortured into denouncing Jesus?
>>
>> I think I need to know all this in order to form an opinion on Greene's
>> concerns. I should point out that I've heard accusations of
>> wing-nuttery against Greene, especially by the "progressive" media, but
>> I've never heard a single clip directly from her where she explains her
>> views about anything so I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt
>> initially, even though I utterly loathe the idea that she's trying to
>> protect a justification for launching anti-Jewish pogroms.
>>
>>> I heard excerpts of the bill's sponsor's speech on the House floor on
>>> C-SPAN this morning. Michael Lawler (R-New York) is the lead sponsor.
>>> He explained that he was trying to help college leaders understand
>>> what anti-Semitism is because they have so much trouble noticing it
>>> taking place. I couldn't stop laughing.
>>>
>> Bravo to Lawler for his wit!
>>   
>>> The bill's sponsors stated that the bill includes language that does
>>> not thwart criticism of the government of Israel. I'm not sure. The
>>> anti-Semitic criticism of Israel they are trying to thwart could be an
>>> expression of anti-Semitism (under the definition) and may not be an
>>> attempt to threaten or intimidate. It's possible to be anti-Semitic
>>> without making a death threat.
>>>
>>> These are my concerns. I haven't thus far found concerns stated by
>>> Democrats who opposed the legislation to be all that specific to
>>> concerns they claim to have over the potential for free speech to be
>>> stifled.
>>>
>> Yet somehow I feel sure the Democrats would be EXTREMELY unhappy if any
>> new law limited the right of their precious "progressive" students from
>> being as anti-Israel/anti-Semitic as they wanted to be.
>>   
>>> Even if Republicans supporting this legislation have the moral high
>>> ground -- and they do appear to -- I don't want speech stifled.
>>>
>> A worthy goal!
>>   
>>> Even those students supporting Hamas might have been represented by
>>> David Goldberger to protect their civil right to free speech, in the
>>> olden days in which the ACLU represented Kluxers and neo-Nazis so that
>>> the rest of us might speak freely.
>>
>> That was then, this is now. My perception is that the ACLU has morphed
>> beyond recognition into a hard-core anti-capitalist left wing group of
>> advocates.
> 
> Matt Walsh summed up my thoughts on the bill and the absolute inability of
> Republicans to take a win without cocking it all up:
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5FadIjHlYcM&t=608s
> 
> There's no way I'll support anything that gives foreign governments the
> ability to set the limits of acceptable speech in America.


Does "supporting things" whilst being an anonyshit carry a lot of weight 
then?