Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 04:12:51 -0500
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Subject: Re: Snopes Finally Debunks Left-Wing Claim of "Very Fine People" in Charlottesville
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From: trotsky <gmsingh@email.com>
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On 6/30/24 4:12 PM, moviePig wrote:
> On 6/30/2024 4:30 PM, trotsky wrote:
>> On 6/30/24 11:29 AM, moviePig wrote:
>>> On 6/30/2024 6:55 AM, trotsky wrote:
>>>> On 6/29/24 12:15 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>> On 6/29/2024 1:01 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/29/2024 12:22 PM, trotsky wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/28/24 5:22 PM, moviePig wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/28/2024 5:10 PM, shawn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 28 Jun 2024 19:39:52 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
>>>>>>>>> <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> BTR1701 <atropos@mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It's seven years after the fact and the damage has long since 
>>>>>>>>>>> been done, but
>>>>>>>>>>> the left-wing fact checkers at Snopes have finally come out 
>>>>>>>>>>> and admitted the
>>>>>>>>>>> whole claim that Trump called neo-Nazis "very fine people" 
>>>>>>>>>>> was a hoax. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> no idea why, but credit where it's due, I suppose?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-very-fine-people/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eh
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It's another example of the more Trump talked, the more he buried
>>>>>>>>>> himself. There was no way for him to win. He should have 
>>>>>>>>>> ignored it, or
>>>>>>>>>> limited his comments to condemning the murder.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't put the "let's go beat up Nazis" counterprotestors on 
>>>>>>>>>> a high
>>>>>>>>>> moral plane. As far as I could tell, the protestors on both 
>>>>>>>>>> sides had
>>>>>>>>>> pretty low morals.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've personally objected to the removal of Civil War monuments 
>>>>>>>>>> making
>>>>>>>>>> the generals god-like, but MY reason is rather different than the
>>>>>>>>>> neo-Nazis: I don't think the modern generation should be 
>>>>>>>>>> re-writing
>>>>>>>>>> history. A past generation erected those monuments and we need 
>>>>>>>>>> to look
>>>>>>>>>> the ugliness of American history square in the face so we 
>>>>>>>>>> never forget
>>>>>>>>>> that Civil War generals were honored by certain Americans for 
>>>>>>>>>> the modern
>>>>>>>>>> politics of that era.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> People are worried about those statues glorifying the actions 
>>>>>>>>> of those
>>>>>>>>> people. I don't think the reasons behind the erecting of the 
>>>>>>>>> statues
>>>>>>>>> or the timing is brought up that often. Certainly I never knew 
>>>>>>>>> growing
>>>>>>>>> up the time frame for the erecting of the statues or the actual
>>>>>>>>> reasons behind it. It would be better to have kept the statues 
>>>>>>>>> and put
>>>>>>>>> more effort into teaching the history behind their erection.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not that I think it would change things as it seems most people 
>>>>>>>>> forget
>>>>>>>>> what little bit of history they get taught in school not long 
>>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>>> leaving school.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I despite prettying up history. Trump was still wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Agreed. History is full of ugly moments that are best 
>>>>>>>>> remembered in
>>>>>>>>> the hopes that we don't repeat them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A descriptive plaque with any such statue would seem to be so 
>>>>>>>> obvious a solution that you have to wonder if both sides 
>>>>>>>> vehemently oppose it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We don't need statues to learn history.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In fact, these statues seem to be about forgetting it...
>>>>>
>>>>> Also: my point is that, even if Trump had said verbatim "Nazis are 
>>>>> fine people", it'd be defensible as a (non-Freudian) slip of the 
>>>>> tongue ...because Trump simply isn't suicidal.  And, trying to 
>>>>> indict him on such weak claims only undercuts the many strong ones.
>>>>
>>>> None of what you said has anything to do with the facts in evidence.
>>>
>>> The fact is that even if there were a video of Trump saying "Nazis 
>>> are fine people" (which, afaik, there isn't) it would beggar 
>>> plausibility.
>>
>>
>> He said there are fine people on both sides.  Why don't you get what 
>> the discussion is about?
> 
> Yes, but the two sides weren't "Nazis" and "non-Nazis".  (Yes, I know 
> that all the Nazis were on only one of the sides.)


The topic was neo-Nazis.  This is exhausting.


Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the 
alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is 
this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and 
they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was 
horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call 
them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently 
attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the 
way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, 
there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both 
sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about 
it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it 
accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville 
to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had 
some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were 
very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse 
me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in 
that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a 
very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. 
Lee to another name."