Deutsch   English   Français   Italiano  
<19gr1jttdu1nes8lf8uedfklf2rccrli7n@4ax.com>

View for Bookmarking (what is this?)
Look up another Usenet article

Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Re: Destructive Lock Nuts Suck
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:12:01 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 207
Message-ID: <19gr1jttdu1nes8lf8uedfklf2rccrli7n@4ax.com>
References: <uvc5ea$2hthv$1@dont-email.me> <uvc61b$2hrcg$2@dont-email.me> <2lbj1jhgckevkgmm9l68ccvln139p8fmhh@4ax.com> <uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me> <uvdsg5$307pj$1@dont-email.me> <80jl1jpp7v5d5orgupl694set0rmo5orft@4ax.com> <uvejst$34tnn$1@dont-email.me> <jovl1jdrvt4cqrlv4jkd3rr53rpekp6lqh@4ax.com> <63cm1jhbr4bvieeubrsbt82b8va465jcra@4ax.com> <p81o1jh5kfhm0h2m6c5v03drudac6amqhj@4ax.com> <ln7p1j17q9ovq3ogk0b36iq45avr6qr82n@4ax.com> <0qhq1j9ibmfv05k2tn9rs2nr6k4batkldb@4ax.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 02:12:01 +0200 (CEST)
Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e98673567001f732d6651cf3cb96ce4b";
	logging-data="599644"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org";	posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19fTON2I3BdpbxMmvy1x+Mo"
User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272
Cancel-Lock: sha1:4oc5DfqoKUutg8bdsTqJ8A8hy2A=
Bytes: 10254

On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:39:34 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
>>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Snag"  wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
>>>>>>>>> Nut:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
>>>>>>>> Snag
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
>>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
>>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
>>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
>>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard.  They simply don't
>>>>>>> shake loose.  Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
>>>>>>> one another.  And Loctite don't hurt.  I recall from a study I read
>>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
>>>>>>> resistance.  Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
>>>>>>> NASA study.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I didn't actually say that.  
>>>>>
>>>>>True, not those words, but this:
>>>>>
>>>>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
>>>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
>>>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame.  Fortunately I had
>>>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
>>>>>
>>>>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
>>>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
>>>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
>>>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough.  Bloodcurdling.
>>>>>
>>>>>This would have terrified me for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off 
>>>>>>for no good reason.  I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers 
>>>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure.  Afterwards it 
>>>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up 
>>>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show 
>>>>>>Low.  There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the 
>>>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep 
>>>>>>inclines.  Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency 
>>>>>>runaway pullouts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts.  The 
>>>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I 
>>>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs.  Before 
>>>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with 
>>>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker.  As near as I can 
>>>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have 
>>>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them.  Two 
>>>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily 
>>>>>>into place (which surprised me).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap.  They were 
>>>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could 
>>>>>>find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker.  I've used 
>>>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results 
>>>>>>over the years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions.  I just don't think its 
>>>>>>necessary here.  I did look at your link and I can see places it would 
>>>>>>be useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
>>>>>Nuts are insignificant.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
>>>>>
>>>>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
>>>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
>>>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped).  Drake
>>>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
>>>>>shake loose.  But this was before Loctite; this ought to work.  The
>>>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe
>>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
>>>>washers!!. 
>>>
>>>Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
>>>
>>>
>>>>      A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
>>>>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
>>>>installed with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff.  URL?
>>>
>>>WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
>>>clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
>>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
>>>>than NyLok
>>>
>>>Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
>>>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
>>>
>>>Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
>>>loctite?
>>>
>>Can't beat "belt and suspenders"  - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
>>I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
>>burn the sucker off!!!
>>>
>>>>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
>>>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
>>>>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
>>>
>>>
>>>Nord-Lock is very good.   <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
>>>
>>>I had to look Disk-Lock up.  <https://www.sherex.com/>
>>>
>>>It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
>>>cloned and maybe improved.  I would assume that it is also very good.
>>>
>>>But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
>>>better.  But this is the right conversation to be having.
>>
>> Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
>>Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
>>arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
>>to!!!
>>>
>>>War story.  A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
>>>attached the safety chains properly.  If that trailer came loose,
>>>someone was going to die.  Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
>>>use beefy threaded quick links. 
>>>
>>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
>>>
========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========