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Path: ...!news.mixmin.net!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!news.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking Subject: Re: Destructive Lock Nuts Suck Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:12:01 -0400 Organization: A noiseless patient Spider Lines: 207 Message-ID: <19gr1jttdu1nes8lf8uedfklf2rccrli7n@4ax.com> References: <uvc5ea$2hthv$1@dont-email.me> <uvc61b$2hrcg$2@dont-email.me> <2lbj1jhgckevkgmm9l68ccvln139p8fmhh@4ax.com> <uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me> <uvdsg5$307pj$1@dont-email.me> <80jl1jpp7v5d5orgupl694set0rmo5orft@4ax.com> <uvejst$34tnn$1@dont-email.me> <jovl1jdrvt4cqrlv4jkd3rr53rpekp6lqh@4ax.com> <63cm1jhbr4bvieeubrsbt82b8va465jcra@4ax.com> <p81o1jh5kfhm0h2m6c5v03drudac6amqhj@4ax.com> <ln7p1j17q9ovq3ogk0b36iq45avr6qr82n@4ax.com> <0qhq1j9ibmfv05k2tn9rs2nr6k4batkldb@4ax.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2024 02:12:01 +0200 (CEST) Injection-Info: dont-email.me; posting-host="e98673567001f732d6651cf3cb96ce4b"; logging-data="599644"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX19fTON2I3BdpbxMmvy1x+Mo" User-Agent: ForteAgent/8.00.32.1272 Cancel-Lock: sha1:4oc5DfqoKUutg8bdsTqJ8A8hy2A= Bytes: 10254 On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:39:34 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote: >On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >wrote: > >>On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>wrote: >> >>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>wrote: >>>> >>>>>On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" >>>>>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>>>> Nut: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> .<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Joe Gwinn >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>>>> Snag >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------------ >>>>>>>> I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >>>>>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing >>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the >>>>>>> hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't >>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read >>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake >>>>>>> resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old >>>>>>> NASA study. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joe Gwinn >>>>>> >>>>>>Well, I didn't actually say that. >>>>> >>>>>True, not those words, but this: >>>>> >>>>>"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the >>>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck." >>>>> >>>>>Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and >>>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise, >>>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range >>>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling. >>>>> >>>>>This would have terrified me for sure. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> .... Just that two of the nuts came off >>>>>>for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>>>runaway pullouts. >>>>>> >>>>>>This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with >>>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>>>into place (which surprised me). >>>>>> >>>>>>These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>>>find. >>>>>> >>>>>>I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>>>over the years. >>>>>> >>>>>>I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>>>be useful. >>>>> >>>>>I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake >>>>>Nuts are insignificant. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449. >>>>> >>>>>And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and >>>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake >>>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would >>>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The >>>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win. >>>>> >>>>>Joe >>>> For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock >>>>washers!!. >>> >>>Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers. >>> >>> >>>> A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the >>>>cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when >>>>installed with medium lock-tite. >>> >>>Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL? >>> >>>WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being >>>clamped is a good bit softer than the nut. >>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/> >>> >>> >>>>Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better >>>>than NyLok >>> >>>Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff. >>> >>> >>>> Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too - >>>>particularly with medium lock-tite. >>> >>>Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with >>>loctite? >>> >>Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if >>I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well >>burn the sucker off!!! >>> >>>>If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one >>>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque >>>>stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose) >>> >>> >>>Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/> >>> >>>I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/> >>> >>>It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now), >>>cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good. >>> >>>But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot >>>better. But this is the right conversation to be having. >> >> Never seen a Drake before - ompressive. >>Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an >>arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it >>to!!! >>> >>>War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not >>>attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose, >>>someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him >>>use beefy threaded quick links. >>> >>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/> >>> ========== REMAINDER OF ARTICLE TRUNCATED ==========