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From: hertz778@gmail.com (rhertz)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Gravitational time dilation HOAX along the years
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2024 23:51:41 +0000
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On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 21:37:54 +0000, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> rhertz <hertz778@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 13:48:34 +0000, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>
>>> Den 17.12.2024 23:58, skrev rhertz:
>>>> Einstein wrote, in his 1911 paper:
>>>>
>>>> .....................................
>>>> 3. Time and the Velocity of Light in the Gravitational Field
>>>>
>>>> If the radiation emitted in the uniformly accelerated system K0 in S2
>>>> toward S1 had the frequency f2 relative to the clock at S2, then,
>>>> relative to S1, at its arrival at S1 it no longer has the frequency f2
>>>> relative to an identical clock at S1, but a greater frequency f1, such
>>>> that, to a first approximation
>>>>
>>>> (2)                  f1 = f2 (1 + gh/c?)
>>>>
>>>> ***************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>> (2')                  h?f1 = f2 (1 + gh/c?)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (2'')                 E1(1 photon) - E2 (1 photon) = h?f2 gh/c?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> h?: Planck's constant
>>>>
>>>> S2 is a point on the z axis at a distance h of point S1, located at the
>>>> z origin.
>>>>
>>>> Einstein described how a photon falling vertically from a height h,
>>>> under gravity acceleration g, gained energy gh/c?. It meant that the
>>>> photon's frequency was blue-shifted while it fell due to gravity.
>>>>
>>>> By that epoch (1911), he kept talking about clocks as reference of time.
>>>> By today standards and the use of ANY atomic clock, the frequency of the
>>>> EM energy is what counts in his theory. It doesn't matter what kind of
>>>> EM clock is, as it ONLY counts cycles/sec of such EM energy, either at
>>>> 9.6 Ghz for Cesium, 1.4 Ghz for Hydrogen maser or ANY derived frequency
>>>> that is obtained by digitally down scaling the frequency. The same
>>>> formula applies to 9.6 Ghz oscillation or a derived 1 Mhz signal. Clocks
>>>> just COUNT pulses.
>>>
>>> Forget the 1911 paper.
>>>
>>> Einstein's last word on the matter is GR.
>>>
>>> What GR predicts for the Pound - Rebka experiment:
>>>
>>> https://paulba.no/pdf/PoundRebka.pdf
>>>
>>> ---------------
>>>
>>> Let's count pulses.
>>>
>>> We have two equal, very precise atomic clocks.
>>> These clocks are emitting the exact frequency f = 10 GHz.
>>> We place one clock on the ground, and the other clock above
>>> it in a tower with height h = 22.56 m.
>>>
>>> After one day the ground clock will show ?? = 86400 s
>>> and it will have emitted N? = 0.864e15 cycles.
>>>
>>> The clock on the ground will have received:
>>>   N? = N??(1+g?h/c?) = N??(1+2.5e-15) = (0.864e15 + 2)
>>> which means that that the clock in the tower will show:
>>>   ?? = 86400 s + 0.2 ns
>>>
>>> After one year  ?? - ?? = 78.2 ns
>>
>>
>> Your comment is worthless, as you're ACCEPTING THAT EINSTEIN WAS RIGHT
>> IN 1911.



> Of course he was, in the Newtonian limit of GR.

1) In 1911 didn't know SHIT about 1915 Hilbert GR solution for field
equations.
   He was begging, around Europe, for some help to understand Minkowski.
   Grossman saved his ass by using Ricci - Levi-Civita only 1.5 years
after.
   And even so, he and his "friend" Besso managed to fuck up everything
that
   Grossman developed in HIS Entwurf I.

2) Entwurf I open with Poisson's formula ∇²φ = 4πGρ, where ρ is the mass
density of Newton's point mass M distributed in a volume of radius r.

As Poisson did, Einstein didn't consider the gravitational attraction
between the infinite number of particles that conformed mass M in such
volume. Poisson was an imbecile trying to re-write Newton's law in terms
of fields (like Gauss).
Poisson was playing with formulae for LEAST ACTIONS when he came with
this.

3) AFTER 1915 (1917), Einstein used this concept to interpret the shape
of the "universe", only to find that it collapsed into itself after a
while. It was the russian Friedman (1922) who reinterpreted the GR field
equation, giving cosmology some mathematical toys to play with.

4) Such Newtonian limit of GR demanded WEAK gravitational fields, masses
moving AT VERY LOW SPEEDS (v<<c), a FLAT SPACETIME and actions at
infinity.


In 1911, Einstein was playing with RADIANT ENERGY (speed c). Nothing
farther than LOW SPEED v<<c. He just assumed that LIGHT HAD MASS, and
used Planck's
E = hf to derive his PROPOSITION of light gaining energy while falling
on Earth's surface.

It doesn't matter HOW MANY TURNS do you want to do to justify his 1911
hypothesis of light having mass and mixing newtonian gravitational
potential with electromagnetic energy. YOU CAN'T ESCAPE FROM THESE
FACTS.

WATCH THIS:

https://physics.aps.org/story/v16/st1

Apparent Weight of Photons
R. V. Pound and G. A. Rebka, Jr.
Phys. Rev. Lett. 4, 337 (1960)
Published April 1, 1960


>> Then, your calculations based on the 1911 formula shows a parasitic
>> dependence on Einstein's words, without ANY SINGLE PROOF IN 113 YEARS.
>
> Nonsense. Most GR textbooks (see MTW for example)
> give a derivation of the Newtonian limit of GR.
> And for all practical purposes the Newtonian limit is adequate.
> (excepting only neutron stars and black holes)
> [snip the same nonsense in more words]
>
> Jan


Like these stupid links, trying to justify the IMPOSSIBLE?


Newtonian limit
https://phys.au.dk/~fedorov/backup/gtr/notes/note8.pdf


GENERAL RELATIVITY AND THE NEWTONIAN LIMIT
https://www.math.uchicago.edu/~may/VIGRE/VIGRE2010/REUPapers/Tolish.pdf

Newtonian limit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newtonian_limit



THEY ALL FAIL, AS THEY DON'T CONSIDER NEWTONIAN ATTRACTION OF
MICROPARTICLES THAT FORMED THE ORIGINAL POINT-LIKE MASS M, from Newton.


It's like to say that the N-Body problem, with N approaching infinity,
is solved in A SINGLE FUCKING EQUATION from 200 years ago. Get a grip.