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From: clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Albert in Relativityland
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2025 21:28:16 +0000
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On Fri, 4 Apr 2025 10:33:37 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:

> Den 03.04.2025 23:06, skrev LaurenceClarkCrossen:
>> On Thu, 3 Apr 2025 9:08:46 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
>>>
>>> The measured mean lifetime of a stationary muon is 2.2 μs
>>> The measured mean lifetime of a muon moving at 0.999668⋅c is 85.36 μs.
>>>
>>> These are measured facts, not math.
>>>
>>> Can you give another interpretation of the facts than "time dilation"?
>>>
>>>
>
>> I did not say the time dilation must be the same for the same speed.
>> I asked why relativity says it's different.
>> What is the alleged cause?
>> When are you going to try to understand?
>
> Your confused nonsense can't be understood.
>
>> Time dilation is not a difference in lifetime.
>> I never denied the measured lifetimes.
>> I only disagreed with your interpretation that it is time dilation.
>> They just live longer. But why?
>
> Everything you say shows that you have no idea of
> what time dilation is.
>
> So let's take it from the beginning.
> Time dilation is the phenomenon that the measured time
> between two events on an objects world-line depend
> on the frame of reference in which it is measured.
>
> In the following example there is but one muon with one life.
> Let the two events on the muon's world-line be its creation and decay.
> If this life is measured to last 2.2 μs in the muon's rest frame,
> then _the same life_ would be measured to last 85.36 μs in
> a frame of reference where the speed of the muon is 0.999668⋅c.
>
> But we can only measure times in the lab-frame (or Earth-frame).
> So it is impossible to measure the lifetime of the same muon
> in two different frames, so we must measure the lifetime
> of a stationary muon, and we know that the proper mean lifetime
> of the moving muon is the same, 2.2 μs.
>
> (Proper lifetime is the lifetime measured in the rest frame
>   of the muon.)
>
> ----------
>
> That the proper mean lifetime of a muon is τ = 2.2 μs
> doesn't mean that all stationary muons will live 2.2 μs.
>
> If a muon is known to exist, then the probability that it still
> exists a time t later is exp(-t/τ).
>
> Now you can read my original post in this thread:
>
> | The speed of muons is v = ~ 0.999668⋅c through the atmosphere
> | which also is within the laboratory.
> | γ = 38.8.
> |
> | The mean proper lifetime of a muon is t₀ = 2.2 μs.
> | But measured in the Earth's rest frame the mean lifetime of the muon
> | is  tₑ = 2.2e-6⋅γ s = 85.36 μs (time dilation!).
> |
> | Since muons are created at a height ~15 km, and the time for
> | a muon to reach the earth is t = 15e3/v = 5.005 s,
> | then the part of the muon flux that reach the Earth is
> |  N/N₀ = exp(-t/tₑ) = 0.556, so 55.6% of the muons would reach the
> Earth.
> |
> | If the lifetime of the muons had been 2.2 μs measured in the Earth
> frame,
> | then the part of the muon flux that reach the Earth would be:
> |  N/N₀ = exp(-t/t₀) = 1.32e-10.
> | So only 0.0000000132% of the muons would reach the Earth.
> |
> | Can you guess which of them is closest to what is observed?
>
> Since it is impossible to measure the muon flux at 15 km,
> the experiment would have to be modified to be done in the real world.
>
> Here is how:
> https://paulba.no/paper/Frisch_Smith.pdf
>
Because you can't understand it is confusing to you.

It is easy to understand what time dilation is. It is not a different
lifetime. It is an interpretation that denies the lifetime is different.

Time is the same everywhere so you require a nonsensical definition of
time.