Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!feeder3.eternal-september.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Physics Behind the Spanish Blackout
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2025 11:08:20 +0100
Organization: Poppy Records
Lines: 52
Message-ID: <1rdpl78.12z2isyhywtm8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>
References: <m66c4kdc428f5va3f1lf1hok2d8r7n8027@4ax.com> <1026c1c$fci3$1@dont-email.me> <cnqd4khvpf8bc1m581lt2kquavofaqj6br@4ax.com> <1027bpv$mvq1$1@dont-email.me> <kapjhlx4on.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <1027e64$nfnr$2@dont-email.me> <krrjhlxbmu.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <1rdokas.pew8b1jlata8N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> <1027r93$qqor$1@dont-email.me> <2hte4kdg5ain91bmf3isb7vvfvq45pik9t@4ax.com> <1028eud$11k90$6@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net nupV5qj4KPP3kwQMt5YNvg9DUMkg7n0DmkLl9d/5ga23ijr5nB
X-Orig-Path: liz
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EJrJjjeXpkAg1YXORLLpsijq2Lk= sha256:fQy9859S8rRZfyTqCkkYZEnm8uzNr3wgNuwLVywNehw=
User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.6

Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

> On 10/06/2025 10:04 am, john larkin wrote:
> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 16:37:28 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> On 6/9/2025 1:44 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
> >>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2025-06-09 21:54, Don Y wrote: > OTOH, we're sticking with other
> >>>>technologies (fossil fuels -- coal -- and > nukes) despite obvious and
> >>>>yet to be solved problems INHERENT in their > technology.  Adding
> >>>>"inertia" synthetically to a network is a considerably > more
> >>>>realistic goal than sorting out how to deal with nuclear waste or >
> >>>>the consequences of burning carbon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Solar and wind can be made to impose a gigantic inertia with
> >>>> appropriate electronics. You can fixate the output at 50Hz, locked no
> >>>> matter what.
> >>>
> >>> Only if the surplus energy is available to supply the necessary
> >>>current.
> >>
> >> But that assumes the old usage model where the utility was the "tail"
> >> wagged by the consumer "dog".
> >>
> >> Going forward, expect to see a closer integration of load and supply
> >> management.  It's just silly to over-provision just to accommodate any
> >> *possible* demand when technology exists to predict and manage that
> >> demand.
> > 
> > Right. People shouldn't just be allowed to cook or do their laundry or
> > heat their houses whenever they feel like.
> 
> But they can be offered cheaper rates to do it when the grid is less 
> heavily loaded.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot,_Flat,_and_Crowded
> 
> spelled it all out back in 2008. Back then Thomas Friedman laid a lot of
> emphasis on electric cars which are parked 95% of the time and 
> potentially available as a gigantic grid storage battery.

Are the batteries in those cars designed to only accommodate the 5%
normal usage?  How would they cope with the constant charging and
discharging needed to stabilise the grid?


-- 
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk