Newsgroups: sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: What is a photon
From: nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Reply-To: jjlxa32@xs4all.nl (J. J. Lodder)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2025 11:35:53 +0200
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Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am Montag000009, 09.06.2025 um 07:33 schrieb Bertitaylor:
> > On Mon, 9 Jun 2025 4:46:57 +0000, Thomas Heger wrote:
> > 
> >> Am Donnerstag000005, 05.06.2025 um 13:51 schrieb bertitaylor:
> >>> On Wed, 4 Jun 2025 12:32:19 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Den 04.06.2025 10:39, skrev Bertitaylor:
> >>>>> On Tue, 3 Jun 2025 11:22:38 +0000, Paul.B.Andersen wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Den 02.06.2025 05:16, skrev Bertietaylor:
> >>>>>>>> On 01/06/2025 12:46, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Experiments show that the speed of light is invariant: [...]
> >>>>>>>>> How is that possible if light is waves in an aether ?
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Speed of light has to be variant in the Copernican model. Light is a
> >>>>>>> wave. All waves need media to propagate. Light's medium is aether.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> A bit confused, Bertietaylor?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> You use the Copernican model to defend your claim
> >>>> that the speed of light isn't invariant, and are
> >>>> not confused? :-D
> >>>
> >>> Why should we be? Are you thick? We have following Arindam said clearly
> >>> that as the Earth moves, light speed has to be variant as the nulls in
> >>> MMX could not happen otherwise. The foolish or sinister physicists have
> >>> either not thought of or ignored the fact that the Earth's movement
> >>> would cause light to move more or less between any two points on the
> >>> moving Earth.
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The Copernican model is wrong, the Sun isn't the centre of the
> >>>>>> Universe.
> >>>>>> And in 1543 Copernicus  knew nothing about the speed of light.
> >>>>
> >>>>> The Sun is at the centre of the solar system, of which you may have
> >>>>> heard. The Earth goes around the Sun. The Sun and the planets do
> >>>>> NOT go
> >>>>> around the Earth in crystal spheres. Where the stars are supposedly
> >>>>> light from Heaven casting their light through pricks on the crystal
> >>>>> spheres.
> >>>>
> >>>> And that means that the speed of light isn't invariant? :-D
> >>>
> >>> Light speed would be invariant as per MMX if the Earth did not move in
> >>> space as the Aristotle model has it.
> >>>
> >>> We have following Arindam said clearly that as the Earth moves, light
> >>> speed has to be variant as the nulls in MMX could not happen otherwise.
> >>> The foolish or sinister physicists have either not thought of or ignored
> >>> the fact that the Earth's movement would cause light to move more or
> >>> less between any two points on the moving Earth.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> But forget quantum theories, it is irrelevant to the question
> >>>>>> if the speed of light is invariant.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Many experiments are performed to answer the question.
> >>>>>> A few of them:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Kennedy_Thorndike.pdf
> >>>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Michelson_1913.pdf
> >>>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Alvager_et_al.pdf
> >>>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Babcock_Bergman.pdf
> >>>>>> https://paulba.no/paper/Brecher.pdf
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The result is that it is thoroughly confirmed that
> >>>>>> the speed of light is invariant.
> >>>
> >>> However the big daddy of them all, the MMX, clearly shows that the light
> >>> speed is variant as the Earth moves. If the fact that light moves a
> >>> greater or lesser distance between two points on the moving Earth is
> >>> ignored, the experiments will start off with a false basis.  So nothing
> >>> true will come from such an horrendous bungle.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> So I ask you again:
> >>>>>> How can the speed of a wave in an aether be invariant?
> >>>
> >>> It is never invariant. It is always variant for all objects in the
> >>> universe move with respect to the common static medium, that is aum or
> >>> aether.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the speed of light measured in a frame of reference
> >>>>>> where the aether is stationary?
> >>>
> >>> The speed of light will always APPEAR to be invariant in an experiment
> >>> like MMX whereas it is variant. Making APPEARANCE reality, on the
> >>> unscientific subjective basis, is the constitution of Einsteinian
> >>> pseudo-physics.
> >>>
> >>> That light speed is variant is clearly shown from the Doppler effect,
> >>> like radar or redshift and blueshift in the stars as the go away or come
> >>> near.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What is the speed of light measured in a frame of reference
> >>>>>> where the aether is moving with the speed v?
> >>>
> >>> Aether does not move. The speed of light from a plane flying at speed v
> >>> to a radar on the ground is c+v.
> >>>>
> >>>> No answer, Bertietaylor?
> >>>
> >>> Well, we cannot answer to all as promptly as we might wish. Lots of
> >>> other things to do, what.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am beginning to suspect that you are unable to answer the question:
> >>>> "How can the speed of a wave in an aether be invariant?"
> >>>
> >>> It cannot be invariant, it will always be variant. However on Earth we
> >>> may measure the speed as c following the usual methods. Also, Maxwell's
> >>> equations provide a value for c, which match experimental values.
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe you don't know what invariant means?
> >>>
> >>> Invariant means that the speed does not depend upon the speed of the
> >>> emitter, in this case.
> >>
> >> Actually 'invarinat speed of light' means, that light travels always
> >> with the same speed through vacuum.
> > 
> > As measured from the moving Earth, yes. It also matches the value found
> > from Maxwell's equations and the values of permittivity and
> > permeability, triumphantly showing the wave nature of light. However
> > with respect to static solid aether filling the universe it's speed
> > depends upon the velocity of its emitter.
> 
> 
> ALL velocities are 'observer dependent', if you attatch the frame of 
> reference to the observer.

Except for the speed of light.

> That is actually useful, because that is how we observe the world.
> 
> I call this scheme 'subjectivism', which means: if all observers are of
> equal rights, than all possible observers need to observe a different
> world. And all observers observe necessarily from their own position.
> 
> Now this contaions a part, which is against certain assumptions about
> the world, but despite of this is true:
> 
> we don't see the same world!

Perhaps, but we all see the same speed of light.
[snip more nonsense]

Jan