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From: Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.tv
Subject: Re: [OT] Pro-Palestinians in Toronto CELEBRATE Iranian bombs
 falling on Israel
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:53:25 -0400
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On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 06:07:35 -0000 (UTC)
"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
> >Sun, 14 Apr 2024 16:17:44 -0000 (UTC) Adam H. Kerman
> ><ahk@chinet.com>:  
> >>Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:  
> 
> >>>Warren Kinsella, a self-admitted long-time Liberal shill, seems to
> >>>have finally had his fill of multi-culturalism in this article
> >>>written in response to a demonstration in Toronto today that was
> >>>interrupted to announce that Iranian bombs and missiles were
> >>>landing on Israel. The crowd responded with *CHEERS*. (Video
> >>>included in the article.)    
> 
> >>https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/kinsella-is-this-at-long-last-the-result-of-multiculturalism
> >> 
>  
> >>>He's exactly right about the history: multiculturalism was pitched
> >>>for many years as a good thing and any opponents were demonized as
> >>>racists. Look where that's gotten us!    
>  
> >>The American melting pot concept wasn't a government program.  
> 
> >That's an interesting thing to say. I've never heard it stated that
> >way but it's important to say it to make clear that the melting pot
> >idea was an expectation of many Americans but not something mandated
> >by the federal or state governments.   
> 
> >>Many
> >>immigrants were both trying not to stand out and they were highly
> >>motivated to integrate into society because they were forced out of
> >>their shithole countries in Europe. They were fleeing persecution
> >>and war after war after war. If you were on losing side, society had
> >>essentially collapsed. On the winning side, you were going to be
> >>forced to fight a war you didn't support in a country you didn't
> >>want to go to.  
> 
> >>But there are plenty of prominent examples in America contrary to
> >>the "melting pot" concept. Certain Protestants throughout the 19th
> >>century and much of the 20th century accused Catholics --
> >>especially Irish ethnics and immigrants -- of being Papists and
> >>therefore disloyal.  
> 
> >I've always assumed Papist and Catholic were exact synonyms, i.e. all
> >Catholics were Papists and all Papists were Catholics. Is that *not*
> >true?  
> 
> It's an insult, accusing Catholics of being disloyal, having a higher
> allegiance to the Church and its head of state the Pope than to their
> own country. Have you ever heard a Catholic describe himself that way?
> 
Good point! 

I wonder if loyal Catholics had an equivalent insult for the former
Catholics that followed Henry VIII into the Church of England? (I'm
guessing they didn't dare use such a term too openly given the
discrimination that soon came their way.)


> >>This was absurd given that the Irish had always been here in large
> >>numbers since the colonial period. To counter that, municipal
> >>government patronage was organized "tribally" before civil service
> >>laws. The new administration fired everybody hired by the previous
> >>administration to put in his own clan.   
> 
> >Tammany Hall and its equivalents in other cities.   
> 
> >>That and certain very public
> >>celebrations in America, like parades for Saint Patrick's Day, are
> >>about drinking (as if the Irish needed another excuse) and honoring
> >>the clan. It's not exactly celebrating a tradition in the old world
> >>as they don't have four major parades like Chicago. Columbus Day, as
> >>a federal government and state government public holiday (but not in
> >>the private sector) is to honor Italian ethnics. I don't believe
> >>Columbus leaving for the New World is celebrated in Spain (there's
> >>no reason to celebrate it in Italy which didn't have colonies in the
> >>Americas).  
> 
> >Italy itself wasn't unified into its modern form until the 1860s;
> >prior to that, there were a variety of Italian states.  
> 
> Right. Columbus was from Genoa and as far as I know, when he set sail
> isn't celebrated there with a national holiday.
> 
I looked that up and it turns out that Columbus Day had been a national
"celebratory day" in Italy since 2004. I don't think it's a national
HOLIDAY - there's a separate list - so it may not be any bigger deal
than Mother's Day or Valentine's Day is here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Italy

> >(Much the same was the
> >case with Germany which only took on its modern form at the end of
> >the Franco-Prussian War in 1871.)  
> 
> Lied der Deutschen (Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles), the national
> anthem, was originally expressing a desire for a free German people to
> unify in a free republic in a liberal society. They were calling the
> remaining princes and others opposed to unification selfish, putting
> their own interest above society. Of course, the way Germany united --
> under a strong man after yet another war -- wasn't what they had in
> mind,
> 
> It was a nice sentiment before it was perverted, and you can't go
> wrong setting your national anthem to the music of Haydn rather than a
> drinking song.
> 
Germany took some particularly tragic turns before finally getting on
its  current good path after WWII....

> >The melting pot idea obviously didn't hold sway in other ways, of
> >course. America took in many Jews and they didn't all convert to
> >Christianity to fit it.  
> 
> But that would have been un-American. We may have had cultural
> assimilation to a greater or lesser extent, not religious
> assimilation. Which Protestantism anyway? There are lots of choices,
> and some are very different from each other.
> 
> No national church and no king are two of the greatest gifts our
> Founding Fathers gave us.
>
Agreed!!
 
> >Whatever concerns they must have had about
> >persecution - and they were persecuted every other place they ever
> >lived so surely must have expected more of the same in America - they
> >still felt they could practice their religion here.  
> 
> It was nothing like Europe.
>
Most of the time, sure. But there was still discrimination, some of
which persists today based on what we hear from Jewish students at
Harvard and other major universities....

> >>. . .   
> 
> >Kinsella mentions another important moment in recent Canadian history
> >when he mentions the Air India bombing in 1985. Sikh separatists in
> >BC blew up an Air Canada flight to India containing almost entirely
> >people from India in their rage over Indira Gandhi's crushing of the
> >Golden Temple of Amritsar, as led by a Sikh firebrand seeking an
> >independent Sikh homeland. I believe there are still tensions
> >between Sikhs and Hindus over this horrific act and it remains a
> >source of tension between Canada and India given that Modi deplores
> >the idea of an independent Sikh state and Trudeau is careful to
> >defend the right of Sikhs to aspire to a homeland.  
> 
> He does? That worked out just great in Yugoslavia. He should keep his
> mouth shut.
> 
I assume you mean Trudeau, as opposed to Modi, should keep his mouth
shut. I heartily agree. But Trudeau is shameless in pandering to people
whose votes he wants. 

But you see the same thing with respect to Biden putting heavy pressure
on Israel over Gaza so as to avoid losing support in Michigan and
Minnesota. It's what politicians do when an election is coming up....


-- 
Rhino