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From: Don <g@crcomp.net>
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Ted Nolan wrote:

<snip>

Thank you for sharing your impressions Ted. Allow me again to air
associations freely in the style of a Jew.

> To Turn the Tide
> by S.M. Stirling
> https://amzn.to/3CyPIn0
>
> Here Stirling returns to the sort of _Lest Darkness Fall_ story he
> told in his "Island In The Sea Of Time" series twenty years ago,
> and though this is not a bad story, he did it a bit better there.
>
> In a time-line which seems to have diverged from ours in 2020, a
> group of five American historians, all experts on the Roman era,
> are lured to Vienna under false pretenses.  In fact their Austrian
> physicist host has invented a working time machine, and (apparently)
> wants to do a Mr. Atoz to Principate Rome to escape the (pretty
> much clearly coming) nuclear holocaust.  We don't know much about
> him aside from his being a manipulative jerk because just as the
> American team arrives, the balloon goes up, and he activates the
> machine just as the fireball is knocking out the windows, killing
> him and stranding our heroes (still physically in the same place)
> in Provincia Pannonia Superior in June 165 A.D..
>
> Our party, stunned unconscious, and not fully understanding what
> has happened is a mixed group: An older (but not old) Army veteran
> professor, and four graduate students including two men and two
> women.  As is necessary in this type of story (if it is not to be
> short & depressing) they have incredible luck: They meet an
> honest man -- A middling prosperous & ambitious Jewish trader, educated
> and knowledgeable about Roman society, but enough apart from it to
> not feel any special compulsion to take them to the authorities.
> With his backing (abetted by the wealth & supplies provided by the
> dead physicist), the group sets up shop on a Pannonian plantation
> and begins to work to try and change the future they just escaped.
> Complicating matters no little bit is that they have arrived on
> site just before the start of the Marcomannic wars and that anything
> significant they do is bound eventually to bring the attention of
> Marcus Aurelius, who is no dummy.
>
> I enjoyed this book, and will read the follow-on.  It was nice
> to have a lot of hats tipped towards Martin Padway, as the group
> has all naturally read LDF, and I enjoyed the explication (and
> examples) of the two types of possible technological developments:
> A) The stuff the Romans could do if they thought of it (wheel-barrows,
> stirrups, chimneys) and B) The stuff that would take a lot more
> working up to, like steam engines.
>
> That said, as I intimated above, I believe _Island In The Sea Of Time_
> is a better book, as the characters were more strongly drawn there,
> or at least that's how I remember it.  Here they are a bit stereotyped,
> and subordinate to the bootstrapping tech.  The professor has a bit
> of a character arc, the others less so.  There is also not a lot
> of establishment as to why the group should all stay together, and
> why the "change the future" project should be their common goal.
> Yes, they are all fish out of water, but three of them, at least,
> do find love on the local economy and could easily take their
> wealth and "go native".  To be fair, Stirling does make the point
> several times that Rome is just the best thing going, not that
> it is "good" by uptime standards, but I think some more debate
> before everyone falls in line would be welcome.

This story suggests some pulp elements. In regards to technological
developments, SOME WORDS WITH A MUMMY by Poe inverts Whig history:

    I here asked the [mummy] what he had to say to our railroads.

    "Nothing," he replied, "in particular." They were rather
    slight, rather ill-conceived, and clumsily put together.
    They could not be compared, of course, with the vast, level,
    direct, iron-grooved causeways upon which the Egyptians
    conveyed entire temples and solid obelisks of a hundred and
    fifty feet in altitude.

> Sanctuary (Roman's Chronicles Book 1)
> by Ilona Andrews
> https://amzn.to/4hP6Bsn
>
> Roman is a Russian Black Volhv, part of the improbably large Atlanta
> area Russian magical community in Andrews' "Kate Daniel" setting.
> As you would expect, being the servant of a dark god (not the same
> thing, exactly, as an evil god) is no bed of roses, and thus Roman
> finds himself, unsurprisingly, alone in his remote cottage for the
> holidays once more.  Furthermore, said god is on the outs with his
> wife and Roman finds himself (literally) roped into his efforts to
> make amends, something that is making his sleep as restive as his
> holidays are less than festive...
>
> To some extent Roman is used to all that and it's his status quo.
> What is *not* usual is a teenaged boy showing up on his doorstep
> and asking for "Sanctuary", a Christian concept that is not exactly
> part of Roman's Volhv tradition.  Nearly dead when Roman takes him
> in, the kid is unwilling to say more than his sister is coming
> for him.  Who she is, exactly, is a (another) mystery, as is the
> identity of the powerful magical posse who come to take the boy.
> However, if Sanctuary is not part of Roman's tradition, it is
> something that, as he notes, he is very good at, and they aren't
> getting the kid without a fight.
>
> Do I need to say that an Ilona Andrews book is good?  OK, this
> book (or novella really) is very good.  We have seen Roman before
> (he officiated Kate's wedding), but this is the first really
> in-depth look at him we have had, and how he stays a good person
> in the complicated life he leads.  And the sister?  That's as
> mortifying as anything we could have hoped for.
>
> At least in the ebook there is also a very short sequel story
> developing the same themes as Roman's story, and that is also
> good.

Simon Magus appears in THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES. He created the Gnostic
demiurge. Simon Magus' darkly evil god arguably acts as a bookend to
this story's merely dark god.

CITY OF GOD by St Augustine addresses Christian sanctuary. When
Christian barbarians sacked Hippo they gave quarter by designating
Christian churches as sanctuaries.

Danke,

--
Don.......My cat's  )\._.,--....,'``.     https://crcomp.net/reviews.php
telltale tall tail /,   _.. \   _\  (`._ ,.    Walk humbly with thy God.
tells tall tales.. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'    Make 1984 fiction again.