Path: news.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.c
Subject: Re: Integral types and own type definitions (was Re: Suggested
 method for returning a string from a C program?)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2025 19:09:58 +0200
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On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 05:02:45 -0700
Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> wrote:

> Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > On Tue, 25 Mar 2025 08:39:04 -0000 (UTC)
> > Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 2025-03-25, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>  
> >>> On 25.03.2025 05:56, Tim Rentsch wrote:
> >>>  
> >>>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> writes:
> >>>>
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>  
> >>>>> When I started with "C" or C++ there were not only 8-bit
> >>>>> multiples defined for the integral types;  [...]  
> >>>>
> >>>> In C the correct phrase is integer types, not integral types.  
> >>>
> >>> My apologies if I'm using language independent terms.  I'm
> >>> confident, though, that most people (obviously you as well)
> >>> understood the term.  
> >>
> >> You are 100% correct.  You made it clear that you're referring
> >> to a time /when you started with C/. I remember from past
> >> discussions that this was sufficiently long ago that it was ISO
> >> C90 or ANSI C, if not earlier.
> >>
> >> In ISO 9899:1990, we have this:
> >>
> >>   6.1.2.5 Types
> >>
> >>   [...]
> >>
> >>   "The type char, the signed and unsigned integer types.  and the
> >>   enumerated types are collectively called integral types."
> >>                                            ^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >> The integral types were renamed between C90 and C99.  However,
> >> "integral types" remains part of C history.  C90 is a still valid,
> >> historic and historically significant dialect of C.
> >>
> >> Even today, it is misleading to say that "integral types"
> >> is an incorrect way to talk about C. It's a terminology that
> >> has been formally superseded since C90.  However, it is a term
> >> used in computer science and mathematics, and fine for informal
> >> discussions that don't revolve around language-lawyering.
> >>
> >> The word has two pronunciations in English.  When the emphasis is
> >> on the first syllalble:  IN-tgrl, it is a noun which refers to the
> >> opposite of a calculus derivative.  The integral of x^2 from 0 to
> >> 1, etc.  in-TE-gral is an adjective, which is is a common
> >> words---it's an integral part of everyday English, meaning
> >> indivisible from.  In math and CS it is used for indicating that
> >> some quantity is in Z.  
> >
> > Wouldn't the term 'whole numbers' be preferred in everyday English?
> >  
> 
> "Whole numbers" are all non-negative.
> 
> "Integers" include values less than zero.

Thank you.
Sounds like English everyday use differs from two other languages that
I know relatively well in both of which "whole" numbers include
negatives.