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From: Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups: comp.theory
Subject: Re: Anyone that disagrees with this is not telling the truth
Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2024 13:30:27 -0400
Organization: i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
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On 8/18/24 8:47 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 8/18/2024 3:50 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-08-17 12:31:01 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 8/17/2024 7:29 AM, olcott wrote:
>>>> void DDD()
>>>> {
>>>>   HHH(DDD);
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> _DDD()
>>>> [00002172] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002173] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD
>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>> [0000217f] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>> [00002182] 5d         pop ebp
>>>> [00002183] c3         ret
>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183]
>>>>
>>>> *It is a basic fact that DDD emulated by HHH according to*
>>>> *the semantics of the x86 language cannot possibly stop*
>>>> *running unless aborted* (out of memory error excluded)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Simulating Termination Analyzer H is Not Fooled by Pathological Input D
>>>
>>> https://www.researchgate.net/ 
>>> publication/369971402_Simulating_Termination_Analyzer_H_is_Not_Fooled_by_Pathological_Input_D
>>
>> That attempt should be discussed separately, and to some extent 
>> already is.
>>
> 
> We are discussing the foundation of that in this thread.
> 
> X = DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantics of the x86 language
> Y = HHH never aborts its emulation of DDD
> Z = DDD never stops running
> This is the essence of above: (X ∧ Y) ↔ Z
> 
> x86utm takes the compiled Halt7.obj file of this c program
> https://github.com/plolcott/x86utm/blob/master/Halt7.c
> Thus making all of the code of HHH directly available to
> DDD and itself. HHH emulates itself emulating DDD.
> 


And thus the input to HHH isn't the bytes you try to pass off as it but 
ALL of the code of Halt7.obj, so every HHH sees a DIFFERENT input so you 
can't use the results of one to try to provide data for a different one 
without making the mistake of talking about cats by looking at 10 story 
office buildings.

This means that the ONLY HHH that the above applies to is when HHH is 
non-aborting, and every HHH that does abort, can't use that, as its DDD 
doesn't call the needed HHH, but itself.

This means that DDD is Halting, if, and only if, HHH aborts its 
emulation and returns, or DDD is non-halting, if, and only if, HHH NEVER 
aborts its emulation.