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From: clzb93ynxj@att.net (LaurenceClarkCrossen)
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity
Subject: Re: Pound-Rebka: ChatGPT is TRAINED to obey, sucking asses of relativists
 at any cost.
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2024 04:53:01 +0000
Organization: novaBBS
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On Fri, 27 Dec 2024 0:44:48 +0000, The Starmaker wrote:

> The Starmaker wrote:
>>
>> rhertz wrote:
>>>
>>> I repost here the first part of my 2023 OP about the P-R HOAX.
>>>
>>> ****************************************************************************
>>>
>>> Why 1960 Pound-Rebka experiment is an HOAX. Part I.
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/sci.physics.relativity/c/0aLXD2GNp4U/m/bkuHL3f1BgAJ
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> For 63 years now, it has been proclamed that the 1960 Pound-Rebka
>>> experiment was THE FIRST VALID PROOF OF GR gravitational shift,
>>> with +/- 10% statistical error.
>>>
>>> For decades, it was alleged that the Experiment proved right the 1911
>>> Einstein's heuristic assertion that |Δf/f₀| ≈ 20E-15 for an
>>> elevation of
>>> the "light generator" of 22.2 meters above ground.
>>>
>>> It's explained EVERYWHERE the cleverness of this duo, that used samples
>>> of radioactive Fe⁵⁷ atoms emitting 14.4 KeV Gamma rays, with a
>>> frequency
>>> of 3.48E+18 Hz (3,480 PetaHz).
>>>
>>> And it's claimed EVERYWHERE that the duo measured differences of about
>>> 69,660 Hz in that HUGE value of frequency, something that was/is
>>> IMPOSSIBLE with the technology available in the last 60 years (and in
>>> the
>>> next 100 years too).
>>>
>>> It's applauded the high degree of ingenuity for using a slowly moving
>>> sample
>>> so Doppler effects (red-shifting part) would cancel gravitational
>>> effects
>>> blue-shifting part, with sample on the tower).
>>>
>>> WHAT HAS NOT BEEN SAID ANYWHERE is that those "clever guys" and his
>>> team of collaborators DIDN'T USE RELATIVISTIC DOPPLER FORMULA, but
>>> used the 160 years old Doppler formula (the one Hubble used in 1929).
>>>
>>> So, how is this? Using Newton effects to cancel Einstein effects?
>>> Bullshit.
>>>
>>> In this part, I analyze the simple Doppler formula in its two versions.
>>> In the
>>> second part (II), I'll prove that they TRIMMED, COOKED AND FUDGED the
>>> data of the experiment to obtain 14 values (out of thousands) TO FIT
>>> "EINSTEIN'S PREDICTION".
>>>
>>> First things first:
>>>
>>> Relativistic Doppler
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = (1 - v/c)/(1 + v/c) = (1 - βᵣ)/(1 + βᵣ) = p²
>>> 1 - βᵣ = p² + p² βᵣ
>>> 1 - p² = βᵣ (1 + p²)
>>> βᵣ = (1 - p²)/(1 + p²)
>>>
>>> Classic Doppler
>>> (f₁/f₀) = (1 - v/c)/(1 + v/c) = (1 - β)/(1 + β) = p
>>> 1 - β = p + p β
>>> 1 - p = β (1 + p)
>>> β = (1 - p)/(1 + p)
>>> ---------------------------------------
>>> ELEMENTARY CALCULATIONS
>>>
>>> (f₁/f₀) = p = (f₀ + Δf)/f₀ = 1 + Δf/f₀
>>>
>>> p = 1 + Δf/f₀ = 1+ 15.5E-15 (Pound-Rebka, top-down, 1960)
>>>
>>> βᵣ = (1 - p²)/(1 + p²) ≈ 15.5E-30 (relativistic, NOT USED).
>>>
>>> β = (1 - p)/(1 + p) ≈ 15.5E-15 (classic, ALLEGEDLY USED)
>>>
>>> v = β.c ≈ 15.5E-15 x 3E+10 cm/sec = 4.55E-04 cm/sec
>>>
>>> BUT THEY CLAIMED THAT THE LINEAR VELOCITY OF THE SWINGING
>>> SAMPLE WAS ABOUT 1 cm/sec, not 1,000 times lower than that!
>>>
>>> And THIS was used to cancel gravitational blue-shifting in 22.2 mt,
>>> given
>>> by the einstenian formula:
>>>
>>> (f₁/f₀) = √ [[1 - 2GMₑ/c² 1/(Rₑ + h)]/(1 - 2GMₑ/c²
>>> 1/Rₑ)]
>>>
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² = [1 - 2GMₑ/c² 1/(Rₑ + h)]/(1 - 2GMₑ/c²
>>> 1/Rₑ)
>>>
>>> 2GMₑ/c² = 4.43503E-03 m
>>> Rₑ = 6.378136550E+06 m
>>> h = 22.2 m
>>>
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² = (1 - 6.953461356E-10)/(1 - 6.953485559E-10)
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² ≈ 1.000000000000000 (error < 10E-15)
>>>
>>> So, the relativistic gravitational shift is BARELY NOTICED:
>>>
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² = (1 - 6.953461356E-10)/(1 - 6.953485559E-10)
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² = 0.999999999304654/0.999999999304651
>>> (f₁/f₀)² = pᵣ² ≈ 1.000000000000000 (error < 10E-15)
>>>
>>> The above calculations are a proof that the NARRATIVE about the "shift
>>> cancellation" by using classic Dopler effect to CANCEL the einstenian
>>> relativistic blue shifting is JUST A FAIRY TALE.
>>>
>>> Any measurement of such calculations was IMPOSSIBLE TO BE MADE in
>>> 1960 and for the next 40 years.
>>>
>>> What Pound & Rebka CLAIMED THAT MEASURED was below the values to
>>> be cancelled (about +/- 15E-15).
>>>
>>> The ALLEGED speed v of the sample, in the direction of the detector had
>>> to
>>> be around 4.55E-04 cm/sec, not the claimed 1.5 cm/sec.
>>>
>>> Wikipedia estimates that v ≈ 7.5E-05 cm/sec.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound%E2%80%93Rebka_experiment
>>>
>>> The ABSOLUTE AVERAGE frequency shift had to be around 69,600 Hz,
>>> difference IMPOSSIBLE TO BE MEASURED BY ANY MEANS on 3.48E+18 Hz
>>> (3,480 PetaHz) frequency of Gamma ray photons.
>>>
>>> So, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE that the 14 carefully selected
>>> measurements that they published are ABSOLUTELY TRUE, even when
>>> they have a FUDGE COMPENSATION FACTOR FOR TEMPERATURE that
>>> is ALMOST THE MEASURED VALUE. As an example, this measurement,
>>> as published:
>>>
>>> Feb. 22, 5 p.m. ; Source at the bottom.
>>> Shift observed: (-11.5 ± 3.0) x 10E-15
>>> Temperature correction: -9.2 x 10E-15 (almost 90% cooking/fudging)
>>> Net shift: (-20.7 ± 3.0) x 10E-15 [as predicted by Einstein]
>>>
>>> NOTE: Photons without recoil are a tiny fraction f of the total amount
>>> of
>>> Gamma photons emitted. And this fraction has frequency shifts that are
>>> SPREAD, in a gaussian way, around f₀ ± 34,800 Hz CALCULATED, not
>>> measured.
>>>
>>> Now, anyone wanting to redo such experiment today will have to justify
>>> PLENTY how did they measured such uber tiny difference in 3,480 PetaHz.
>>>
>>> No way then, and even today, unless you resort to fudging and
>>> statistical
>>> HEALING.
>>>
>>> Next part will be about the 14 published measurements, as the one above.
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> "TRIMMED, COOKED AND FUDGED" is the only way any scientists can get a
>> million dollar grant today!
>>
>
> Is there a rule that Albert Einstein DIDN'T break?
> https://www.enago.com/academy/10-types-of-scientific-misconduct/
>
>
>
I don't see any, do you?